Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion

[Tea Lady]

Good grief. Next thing someone will be saying Helen James has woken in the morning to find a unicorn's head in her bed...

Sounds like she was trying to be helpful but got her knuckles rapped. Shame.

[LV R/H]

(29-10-2011 11:37 AM)Gillymac Wrote:  They went fishing during filming and like so many fishermen, caught something they didn't want. Not for them a stoical shrug of the shoulders and toss the catch back. No - they tried to batter a trout to turn it into a salmon - which achieved nothing, other than to lose some poor runner who thought he was doing them a favour his job. A real live person, put out of work, leaving them (and their family, if they have one) in god knows what kind of financial shape in these difficult times. It wouldn't surprise me if that was our old friend EndingHappy, who built up the hopes of so many innocent people on this forum, who were oblivious to what had went before.

Just seen this post!
Wow, thats a hell of a lot of assumptions you've made there! I fear you are picking up bits of info here and there and putting 2+2 together and getting 5.

For starters the employee was fully aware of what he was doing, he certainly wasn't a runner and had been with Spooks since the start and he did not lose his job! Whether or not you agree or not; perhaps you should speak to the people you are accusing before you throw untrue accusations around.

[Ceridwyn2]

Quote:

Quote:HJP have subsequently tweeted a retraction, mentioning that their remarks were "made without authorisation" and have deleted all of their previous tweets to the persons involved, which I think makes it fairly clear that Kudos have had a word with them.

You're right. It would be wrong to blame people if they were simply responding to something HJP has tweeted off their own bat. But they aren't. They're responding to comments they went fishing for, so I'd call that 'biting the hand that feeds you'.

Well, I think if people put themselves on twitter/FB or make their contact details publicly known, then it isn't unreasonable to ask them questions. Just because she may have mistakenly said something she shouldn't, I still don't see how that is the fans fault. She could after all, have chosen not to respond. Personally, I feel that Kudos are the ones who are being a little authoritarian over this whole thing. I presume they were behind the youtube clip of PF and NW on the bench, being suddenly removed. A little childish it seems to me...
Anyway I don't want to get into an argument, this is just how I see it. This is probably going a bit OT now so I will agree to disagree with you and end it there.

Actually, as SPOOKS is Kudos's intellectual property, they have every right to shut down unauthorized video or audio releases of any Spooks related material. Another thing is, if Kudos are going to include S10 promo videos on the DVD releases, then they will want 'free' access to that material shut down.

There is a somewhat 'grey' area with regards to fan videos using Spooks (or any other show/film/webseries" etc content), wherein some suggest there is some fair use in putting clips to music, which is still copyright infringement, no matter what your intention. Some producers don't have problems with fan videos (like say Joss Whedon), whereas others have much more stringent restrictions on their property - which is their right to do so.

Fans shooting video of the actors during production of the series, the production company has every right to ask to have the footage taken down (or not put up) IF it contains material that could potentially spoil storyline. I'm grateful that the materials that were put up, that did not spoil scenes, have been left up - interesting clips that make me just a wee bit envious that I couldn't be there in person.

If people were indeed baiting Helen James Productions wanting an alternative ending, hoping they might say something off the cuff, then using that to have a go at Kudos for a potential alternative ending to the series 10 ending, then that was not cool, IMO. And it could potentially hurt HJP in the future.

[Gillymac]

Quote:Just seen this post!
Wow, thats a hell of a lot of assumptions you've made there! I fear you are picking up bits of info here and there and putting 2+2 together and getting 5.

For starters the employee was fully aware of what he was doing, he certainly wasn't a runner and had been with Spooks since the start and he did not lose his job! Whether or not you agree or not; perhaps you should speak to the people you are accusing before you throw untrue accusations around.

I of course apologise unreservedly if the stories doing the rounds aren't true. However, that is what is being said, by more than one source and, I'm sure you'll agree, paints a less that flattering picture of those involved and that in turn reflects on the rest of us who call ourselves spooks fans. (I have also edited the original post accordingly).

In the rest of the post I invite those people to justify what they are doing if they feel they can, because genuinely I just don't get it. It all just seems (admittedly, to someone who is not involved) disproportionally nasty and personal considering all that has happened is that a TV show we all loved has ended.

I'm sorry if you were disappointed in the ending. I'm sorry Ruth died. But what's done is done. If people feel the need to complain, well and good - I don't have a problem with that - I do have a problem when those doing the complaining, claim to speak for everyone who viewed the show when they patently don't.

OT I know - I apologise.

Further apologies to LV R/H if the quote above doesn't display properly - I'm working from the reply page as I can't see their post on the main forum

[Ceridwyn2]

Since my last post showed up, deleted the content of the second post.

[expat]

(01-11-2011 05:51 AM)Silktie Wrote:  I dunno, I think Ruth's death paradoxically has refocussed Harry on his work. Of course he is deeply affected by her death, and that is precisely why I think he will strive to do the best job he possibly can - because it is the only way to honour her memory and make her sacrifice meaningful. And Erin has shown that she is not afraid to challenge his decisions, so he will still be forced to think about his calls even though Ruth is no longer there.

Silktie, I think this very well put. I also think that Ruth's last speech to him, that he no longer needed to feel guilty about Elena, that he hadn't lost his humanity, and implicitly that she accepted him as he is, is hugely important in his ability to return to work. His crisis in judgement and confidence that we were seeing in Season 9 is in part resolved by this acceptance and forgiveness. He's honouring Ruth, but he's honouring himself too.

I don't pretend to know much about drama, but in my little mind Harry's return to work is the perfect dramatic ending. If he were my brother, my father, my friend, maybe that's not what I'd want for him. But as a dramatic hero, this is how I picture him going forward, standing on the wall.

And I'm still truly heartbroken by Ruth's death.

[KnowItAll]

So I'm a bit late on the commenting - but I was dealing with my bruised soul. I don't think I've experienced so much post-character sadness since Potter days. I feel like the end of Spooks is similar to the end of Potter in so many way, not least in how badly it's divided opinion. And like with the end of Potter, despite it's flaws and the fact there are a thousand things I wish I could change... I loved it.

I would count myself as a crazy Harry/Ruth fan, but I always loved them in their small yet epic, doomed, repressed, wonderful way. Of course I day dreamed about them living in a cottage arguing over le Carré (whom Harry not-so-secretly loves and Ruth loathes) but I never thought the show would give me that. But because I'm a tragic soul, I loved them all the more for their missed chances and I don't think they ever needed to say I love you ('those three words, are said too much, they're not enough' comes to mind).

I thought the ending was utterly tragic. I've been in pieces since. I always identified with Ruth (to an absurd degree considering I'm 18 and nowhere near her brilliance), so it felt like an almost personal blow... (*reminds self it's fiction*) But it felt perfect too. The acting was superb, beyond brilliant. The dialogue was wonderfully written too; the green door was SO Ruth and her admitting to Harry she imagined where his office would be was worth a thousand 'I love yous', to me at least. Peter Firth was just incredible too. There aren't enough positive adjectives for him and Nicola Walker. Although it all broke my heart, it didn't disappoint me in the slightest.

I said this on tumblr but I'll repeat it here; what hurt more than Ruth dying without a happy ending was her dying still believing she didn’t deserve one.

“Harry, we were never meant to have those things.”

Oh beautiful, tragic wonderful Ruth. I just wanted you to realise how worthy of love and happiness you were all along. Your kindness, your selflessness, your intellect, your absolute integrity… you deserved that house by the sea with Sir Harry more than your heartbreaking insecurity would ever allow you to imagine.

But that doesn't mean I'm 'angry at the writers' that she didn't get it. I'm angry at life and the fact that mostly it is pointless and random and utterly unfair... but amongst all that Ruth and Harry found each other if only for the briefest of moments. And that's what I'll take away from Spooks...

That and ten years of awesome one-liners, terrifying plots, terrifyingly bad accents, the fact it made me want to learn Russian (which I'm now predicted an A* in for A Level), bonding with my Dad over it, heartbreak and the fact I actually feel safe on the tube when I think of Harry Pearce sat in his office. So big thanks to Kudos. And time for a re-watch, I think...

#sorryfortheramblingincoherence

[Betty]

I love your post, KnowitAll! Good luck with the Russian. I wish I'd had Spooks around when I was 18, though I made do with Brideshead Revisited. In the States right now, a story about a real Russian spy/femme fatale is making the news...dead drops, brush passes, infiltration of government at high levels...I imagine Harry getting the briefing as I write.

[beatrice4ruth]

At Ros’s burial, a crushed Harry had Ruth at his side. At Ruth’s funeral who was next to a devastated Harry? Such a cruel ending. This hopeless conclusion means that Kudos just wanted to kill the H/R relationship. All the hype of an impersonator and of a shocking Cold War secret was nothing more than a devious Russian spy fooling a decent Harry for 30 years.

I know that all the characters are fictional. Thanks to PF and NW, we felt that they had become real. Harry was a man who had paid his dues to the country. He deserved some happiness with Ruth who had made him a better man and a better spy. At least Harry and Ruth were finally allowed to declare their love and were happy for a few minutes. Unfortunately, after Ruth’s death Kudos decided to portray Harry not as a devastated human being but as a fictional hero who could go on for ever and ever.

[JHyde]

Do you not see the poignancy in Harry always being the one left behind? That his job is the hardest of all as he watches all these bright young things swallowed by cruel circumstances? That has always packed a powerful dramatic punch.