Episode 5 Discussion

[kirmostar]

Hope the Season 8 DVD includes extras especially RA in makeup - not wearing makeup I mean having the tattoos applied, lots of gratuitous torso shots please

[JHyde]

After 48 hours away from you all, I'll provide my slightly less articulate and coherent thoughts on the episode. By the way Tea Lady - it's nice to see you back and posting. We've missed you!

I disagree that this was a rehash of earlier storylines. Ros is a completely different character to Tom, and Salter's motivations are very different to Colville's. Not to mention That getting some of Ros' backstory was terrific. They're actually very sparing about how they dole out information on the real past lives of Section D-ers, and I like it when they link it in with a plotline like this.

I'll take a leaf out of Silktie's book and break it down thus:

Things I liked -

Stephen Boxer's casting. Inspired. He fitted that character so well, and was equal parts villain and tragic hero (in an Othello sort of way).

The stunts. How awesome was that house explosion? I know HN loves the physical stuff as an actor, and it's a chance for us all to admire her fantastic legs. She's such an ex dancer!

The attachment Harry has to Ros. I'll talk more about this in the Harry thread just to keep this one on topic and my post a little shorter, but these two characters have much more in common than the show has explored thus far, and HN and PF have terrific chemistry as actors. No, I'm talking romanitic chemistry, I'm talking about two actors who obviously like each other, and their admiration and fun is reflected in how they play on screen. I hope that if they and the show both hang on, we'll see more of this development.

The cerebral nature to what was almost a thriller in how it was written and directed. Obviously, it was plot heavy, which is why there was a lot less of the personal stuff such as Harry/Ruth, or Lucas/Harry. Silktie, I'm not convinced we're unlikely to get anymore of either of those dynamics for the remainder of the season, although that might change if they continue to do the plot heavy storylines like 8.3 or this one. I definitely thought this was much more successful than 8.3, but the fact that you needed to pay attention shouldn't be a reason for disliking it.

The one thing that drove me crazy -

The continuity. I love Alrick Riley, he's done fabulous work on the show. But "counter *terroism* unit"? Or Ros wearing combat boots as she runs away from the house as it blows up and then in the next scene, clearly not that much later, and she's wearing her heeled boots again? (And there I was getting excited that she'd dropped the heels, albeit briefly.) That's just sloppy. And the executive producers are as much to blame. To be fair to Riley, this is the 3rd out of the first 5 episodes of season 8 he's directed so he's a little overworked.

I'd also like to address this issue of Lucas sleeping with Sarah just after she lies. If a woman who has previously been denying sex to you comes to bed in an obviously provocative nightgown and then plays vulnerable, to throw that proposition back in her face would tell her very clearly that something is not right. Lucas is a spy. He knows that she'd know something was wrong if he rejected her advances.

Plus, let's not deny the fact that she's pretty good looking and right there looking nice in his bed. And he likes her. This last point is obviously more subjective so don't go nuts trying to dissuade me about G. O'Reilly's looks.

And yes, for the record, it is much easier for an Australian to mimic English accents rather than American ones, because they're much closer in pronounciation, especially in the use of vowels. (O'Reilly grew up in Australia, for those who don't know.) Plus she already has experience with them, she's been acting in England for a few years now. The main pronounciation difficulties she's having are with words starting with "o" and double vowels.

I am starting a new thread to discuss Lucas' tattoos and their continuity, because it seems to be a recurring issue in the episode discussions! Feel free to rave about Armitage's hotness there, if you're so inclined. I will also be starting one on the themes of Series 8.

[Dieder]

Too much of 'been there, done that' in this episode. Still enjoyed it because of the other parts of the story (Lucas, Ros, Harry + more screentime for Tariq), but overall it was a bit slow.

[JHyde]

This episode definitely implied that Tariq has found his place in the team, and that the others are gaining respect for him.

How beautiful was Ros answering "no" to Harry's question about believing the Gibraltar coverstory? And then Harry's gentle but heartfelt "thankyou."? One of my favourite bits of the episode.

[LucasNorthFan]

Great episode!

HN was awesome! Inside the Grid she let somewhat her feelings towards Coleville involvement show while in the field and when confronted him, so totally professional and in control.
I was happy realizing afterwards I was right suspecting the 'Memoirs', couldn't figure the technology that made it possible but knew that somehow Coleville needed her to bring it with her to the Grid.

Smartboy! So cool!

I did notice too, the lack of H&R storyline but I think they couldn't fit everything in, hopefully we'll see more meaningful scenes between them in the next 3 eps.

About Lucas, I don't think because he's just a guy, that's why he slept again with her. At the the beginning when she rejected him she was all the time about how she bad felt and betrayed and blabla about Samuel Walker so if he doesn't suspect her at the time, if later he would still be in the dark about her, there's no real reason to suspect something with their case at MI5 related at the end of the ep.
He was hurting and felt betrayed, but he had to be sure she killed her boss so when she lied he got his 'prove' but still, they only know she killed Samuel but don't know how far involved she's in, are there more powerful reasons behind her killing him? Is her own agenda or someone else's? Even if he was sure she's been lying he can't confront her just yet, and therefore throw her out of his bed, she'll know herself discovered and do whatever to conceal more information. (did I made sense? )

(RA fan comment: loved the barechested scenes, leather and take gloves with teeth scene plus we get to see a smile on his face)

I was a very, oh so a very happy girl once Sarah was discovered. I found cute Ros trying to come up with other possibilities for it, if they weren't convincing...

I'm liking when Harry said last ep, 'Lucas, take Ros' and this one, 'Ros, take Lucas'. He doesn't have much where to choose from , still they work good together so I like it.
I'd like Lucas to look more concerned about Ros, just as she's showed for him last ep of S7, ep 4 and this ep. Ros must still be having a hard time dealing with Jo's death and now her recruiter, the person she admired and respected (right?), went crazy killing agents, crazy as to kill her just because he saw her name in the file he was looking about this past love of his. Lucas working close to her should be a little more empathic...

LNF

[Tea Lady]

Thank you JHyde. Bless, you will be buying me a basket of muffins next!

Just two quick additional comments. Yes I thought Ros did what she did at the end because of Jo. She said to Harry that she had to do this and when he said "no you dont," It was almost like she was saying to him that she needed to do this to get rid of Jo's ghost and I think Harry knew that. Harry was coming over a bit paternal in this episode with Ros. Not sure he would have said to Adam or Tom "Im pulling you out in 5 minutes."

As for Nancy Drew, I know we all have our own tastes but I cant see the attraction for Lucas. Yes she has breasts which is what most men seem to look for but she looks like a china doll and must use a trowel to put her white foundation on in the morning.

[kirmostar]

(29-11-2009 01:01 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  As for Nancy Drew, I know we all have our own tastes but I cant see the attraction for Lucas. Yes she has breasts which is what most men seem to look for but she looks like a china doll and must use a trowel to put her white foundation on in the morning.

While we're being catty about Nancy Drew can just add that her nose looks like it has slipped?

[femaleBertieWooster]

(29-11-2009 09:39 AM)JHyde Wrote:  Stephen Boxer's casting. Inspired. He fitted that character so well, and was equal parts villain and tragic hero (in an Othello sort of way).

No need to tell me I'm not going to win against Shakespeare but I HATE Othello. Plot=guys make each other jealous, woman dies.

Quote:The stunts. How awesome was that house explosion? I know HN loves the physical stuff as an actor, and it's a chance for us all to admire her fantastic legs. She's such an ex dancer!

Ex-dancer! Now we know why she walks around the streets like she's on the runway. And, she has the best posture in town. They do have her walking a lot, it's one of her main attractions, poetry in motion.

Quote:I'd also like to address this issue of Lucas sleeping with Sarah just after she lies. If a woman who has previously been denying sex to you comes to bed in an obviously provocative nightgown and then plays vulnerable, to throw that proposition back in her face would tell her very clearly that something is not right. Lucas is a spy. He knows that she'd know something was wrong if he rejected her advances.

Memo to Lucas, next time try, "I have a headache."

[LucasNorthFan]

Quote:I'd also like to address this issue of Lucas sleeping with Sarah just after she lies. If a woman who has previously been denying sex to you comes to bed in an obviously provocative nightgown and then plays vulnerable, to throw that proposition back in her face would tell her very clearly that something is not right. Lucas is a spy. He knows that she'd know something was wrong if he rejected her advances.

Memo to Lucas, next time try, "I have a headache."
[/quote]

LOL!!

I was rewatching this and it struck me as meaningful that Lucas kisses her in half the mouth as if 'I don't want to but have to' to show is just about play along after she confirmed her lies. He needs her feeling safe he bought her alibi.

Off topic: Where are you discussing the titles, can't find the thread.

LNF

[lwhite53]

(29-11-2009 09:39 AM)JHyde Wrote:  I disagree that this was a rehash of earlier storylines. Ros is a completely different character to Tom, and Salter's motivations are very different to Colville's. Not to mention That getting some of Ros' backstory was terrific. They're actually very sparing about how they dole out information on the real past lives of Section D-ers, and I like it when they link it in with a plotline like this.

I don't think this was necessarily a "rehash" because you're right, the two stories were completely different. However, using the same, very specific, plot device -- older mentor agent "goes native" and younger agent he/she recruited is tasked to fix the problem -- is lazy. There had to be a better way to incorporate the Coleville/Ros background info.