[spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas.

[BravoNine]

(20-11-2010 09:32 AM)BoHenley Wrote:  I refuse to let the silly ending ruin Spooks for me, so good idea Bravo. There were parts that were terrific, and the acting from all but one character was superb. I just wished they'd given us a more believable and satisfying ending. So it's S7 first!

From now on, I will only believe my fanfic version as the real truth of Lucas, not the silly Series 9 ending. That was John Bateman, not Lucas North. It was an evil twin, a whole new character!

Onto Series 7 we go! The greatest scenes for me is Lucas fending off the Russian Kill-Squad in that train station while bleeding from a bullet wound. That courage and that determination will always be what I remember from Lucas. He could have given up, he could have run away, but he didn't. He stood his ground, he gave everything to help Ros and Connie, he was there for his team when they needed him.

I always wondered just how long was the time between the ending of Series 7 and the beginning of Series 8, because I was surprised that Lucas was jumping and hopping around like he was never shot. Maybe he had really good pain-killers?

Ohhhh new fanfic idea, I should totally write a missing scenes fic about Lucas's bullet wound. Maybe once they got Harry back and the adrenaline and pain-killers wore off, Lucas collapsed or something and they found that the wound had re-opened from all that running he was doing in 8.1 and they take him to the hospital, and maybe Harry finally realizes just how much Lucas is doing for him!!! Besides, it'll give me good reason to bring out protective big-sister Ros!

[Belle]

God, I'm totally overwelmed about all of your magnificent analyses, they realy go deep and are very thorough! Congrats to all of you!
I really find it interesting to see the relation between Harry and Lucas taken apart, almost sentence by sentence, to help us understand how fragile it is. I do believe that Harry feels utterly guilty for letting Lucas down, but his pride and the line of work he's in doesn't make it possible for him to face that feeling, he must remain stark to be able to save the kingdom yet again, no one on the grid is really allowed to be 'human', cause humans have flaws and only flawless people can save the world. (I admit that Jo and sometimes Ruth give in to their emotions, but I have the feeling it's not welcomed and has to be swepped under the carpet, emotions are to delt with in their private time).
That leads me back to Lucas. I think you really could feel the never ending struggle he had between being an A-class officer, for wich he also had to be stark, cold, emotionless and maybe even unhuman and the part of him that so desperatly wanted to become human again, after being deprived of anything human for 8 years. He almost wasn't allowed to learn to be human again, because that is a traid not welcomed in an MI5-officer, (hence the need to get commands, that way he knew how to act, if he didn't got a command he remained totally helpless because there was no one to teach him humanity on the grid. But that was pointed out in a post above.) I feel like we -the viewers- can understand, in some regards, how utterly destroyed Lucas was as a human and I think this is for the great part thanks to the amazingly detailed and accurate acting of Richard Armitage (like said in posts above).
The whole story arc of Lucas and Harry has indeed been destroyed in S9, and yes I feel cheated, very much!
I very curious to learn more about Lucas' tattoo's, thanks for reinstalling that thread!
Oh and BravoNine, curious to read that fanfic you're refering to here above

[HellsBells]

Great analysis of 7.1, thanks everyone! And yes when I heard that series 9 story arc was all about Lucas, I was so excited, and then afterwards felt so very cheated.
Binkie, would really love to read your analysis of 8.4.

[Byatil]

(20-11-2010 06:55 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  Binkie, would really love to read your analysis of 8.4.

Ditto that! 8.4 was a brilliant episode, I think I'll have to re-watch it and see what I can gather from it myself.

[BravoNine]

8.4 was one of my most favorite episodes, it showed how even under enormous pressure and pain, Lucas knew where his loyalties belong and he didn't let Harry and the team down. He fought against Dasharvain and did not back down no matter how much hurt it may have caused him. Sure he ran off on his own maverick ways, but in the end, he came through for the team, he made it even though those memories of torture and horror were killing him inside. He did it because he knew his team needed him, his country needed him.

How can I ever believe that such a man who stood so strong against his captor and interrogator and never wavered in his loyalty would suddenly now change because of Vaughn, a stupid briefcase, and an old girlfriend!!

How am I suppose to reconcile the man who stood up for his team, stood up for his country, would turn against the very people he spent the last few years to protect!

[binkie]

(21-11-2010 01:57 PM)Byatil Wrote:  

(20-11-2010 06:55 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  Binkie, would really love to read your analysis of 8.4.

Ditto that! 8.4 was a brilliant episode, I think I'll have to re-watch it and see what I can gather from it myself.

Please do. I'm really interested to see what others take from this episode before I go blundering in with my own observations. This is such a complex and layered piece of writing, and the two crucial performances are so nuanced in the relationship they portray, I am really curious to see what insights are revealed through someone else's reading. Get to it

[Byatil]

(21-11-2010 02:47 PM)binkie Wrote:  

(21-11-2010 01:57 PM)Byatil Wrote:  

(20-11-2010 06:55 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  Binkie, would really love to read your analysis of 8.4.

Ditto that! 8.4 was a brilliant episode, I think I'll have to re-watch it and see what I can gather from it myself.

Please do. I'm really interested to see what others take from this episode before I go blundering in with my own observations. This is such a complex and layered piece of writing, and the two crucial performances are so nuanced in the relationship they portray, I am really curious to see what insights are revealed through someone else's reading. Get to it

Well, 8.4 is probably one of the best-written episodes of Spooks I've watched. Very cleverly done, and a very compelling piece of drama. I'll see if I have time to watch it later, and I'll try and analyse it a little! There's so much to say though, I can think of enough things off the top of my head without watching it and looking for every little piece of information

[BoHenley]

Having just watched 8.4 broadcast on Australian TV, I'm going to have to rewatch it just to pick up on the deeper undercurrents of it. The powerplay between RA and the guy who played Darsharvin is terrific, and of course, there's the boiler suit scene...which BTW I still think was necessary for the plot. So why didn't Lucas unravel THEN? Instead he unravels with Vaughan, a bloody suitcase and the mobile rock (Oh-My-A).

I rewatched 7.2 last night - OMG! The scene on the Grid where Harry says "Go home" to Lucas, and the rejection on RA's face is unbelievable. Watch it again.

[BravoNine]

(21-11-2010 08:05 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  So why didn't Lucas unravel THEN? Instead he unravels with Vaughan, a bloody suitcase and the mobile rock (Oh-My-A).

Exactly what I have been curious about too, Darsharvin claims that he knows every inch of Lucas's mind......I think he missed something.... some VERY important...like a whole new identity!!!

Or he was just a horrible interrogator....

Seriously, this whole John storyline makes every intelligence agency look like idiots....am I to believe that NO ONE noticed any difference? Either the Russians suck at interrogation or Lucas/John is just so amazing of an actor....

(21-11-2010 08:05 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  I rewatched 7.2 last night - OMG! The scene on the Grid where Harry says "Go home" to Lucas, and the rejection on RA's face is unbelievable. Watch it again.

And to think there are people out there who call RA a one-note actor who only broods and they can't see him tackling a complex role as Thorin Oakenfield in the Hobbit.......

Clearly these people have not even closely focused on his performances in Spooks, it's so subtle but it's there, I can see it in his eyes. Those baby blues tell more than they think they do. I love RA's attention to detail and focus on every scene whether he is in the spotlight or he is in the background.

[Byatil]

(21-11-2010 08:05 PM)BoHenley Wrote:  Having just watched 8.4 broadcast on Australian TV, I'm going to have to rewatch it just to pick up on the deeper undercurrents of it. The powerplay between RA and the guy who played Darsharvin is terrific, and of course, there's the boiler suit scene...which BTW I still think was necessary for the plot. So why didn't Lucas unravel THEN? Instead he unravels with Vaughan, a bloody suitcase and the mobile rock (Oh-My-A).

I rewatched 7.2 last night - OMG! The scene on the Grid where Harry says "Go home" to Lucas, and the rejection on RA's face is unbelievable. Watch it again.

I think I need to rewatch both series 7 and 8! Hopefully I can buy the series 7 boxset sometime this week.

As to the question of why Lucas didn't "lose it" when he re-encountered Darsharvin, I think it's because he had to prove to himself that he could deal with it? Along with the idea that he was experiencing stockholm syndrome... as Lucas said, (something along the lines of) "You'd beat me and then leave me for weeks, just so that I'd crave more beatings". You have to remember that Darsharvin was pretty much Lucas' only company, for a very long time. He's probably the man who stopped Lucas losing his sanity. The fact that Lucas also mentioned being taken "for walks between sessions" implies they had a 'good' relationship, and I expect that Lucas actually sees Darsharvin as a 'friend', in a way. He has a lot of respect for the man, as is evident throughout the episode. Lucas is willing to risk everything for him, which we can see by the way he blatantly defies orders, and how he invited Darsharvin back to his flat. He's extremely angry with Sarah when she almost jeopardises the trust he's been building up - which is shocking, because Sarah hasn't seen that side of Lucas before.

As to the boiler suit thing, once again... it's a trust/submission thing. Shows Lucas' vulnerability and willingness to obey orders, etc. The fact that Darsharvin could have killed Lucas at any moment says a lot about their relationship. As much as Darsharvin hates to admit it, he needs Lucas, and he knows that Lucas 'needs' him.

Damn, I really want to re-watch those episodes now!