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Byatil · (This post was last modified: 13-12-2010 01:22 AM by Byatil.)

It may be of interest to some of you that on the Series 7 DVD extras, there are some cast interviews in which RA somewhat explains his thought process behind Lucas' character. It appears binkie was correct in thinking that Lucas feels he need to 'become' his former self - in the interview, RA said something to the effect of "he's a sharp blade, but a damaged one", and that Lucas' internal struggle is all about how he knows he used to be brilliant, and he now has to reattain that brilliance whilst carrying the emotional-damage he was subjected to in Russia. However interestingly, RA also comments that he has created a character he "aspires to be", in that Lucas is almost a 'super-hero', but within the limitations of his humanity. A dark and complex hero, but I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that he was meant to be more of a "Batman" than a real villain!

It's also interesting that the cast all refer to him as "the new hero", which is something else that confuses me in terms of the S9 story-arc. Apparently, Lucas was created with the intention of being heroic, however I suppose you can draw your own conclusions as to whether he can still be considered heroic after the events of 9.8.

Finally; I'm sure this may have already have been brought up, but in 7.1, Lucas tells Harry of the Russian tattoo culture: "you don't belong; you're dead" et cetera, which has undertones of the fact that Lucas doesn't 'belong' to MI5 anymore. It almost seems as if he's subtly telling Harry that without MI5, he is 'dead'. Worthless, and rather meaningless. That entire scene is so intense. I can't quite contain my appreciation for the phenomenal acting!

BoHenley · 13-12-2010, 09:16 AM

And how that carries into 9.8: "I am nothing."
That scene was so intense between those two.

binkie · 13-12-2010, 09:20 AM

(13-12-2010 01:19 AM)Byatil Wrote: It may be of interest to some of you that on the Series 7 DVD extras, there are some cast interviews in which RA somewhat explains his thought process behind Lucas' character... interestingly, RA also comments that he has created a character he "aspires to be", in that Lucas is almost a 'super-hero', but within the limitations of his humanity. A dark and complex hero, but I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that he was meant to be more of a "Batman" than a real villain!

Interesting. Does Batman actually get a mention, or is this a parallel you are drawing (and is this really just about the costume?!)? Do we get any other useful information about Lucas from the interviews?

Byatil · (This post was last modified: 13-12-2010 10:31 PM by Byatil.)

(13-12-2010 09:20 AM)binkie Wrote: Interesting. Does Batman actually get a mention, or is this a parallel you are drawing (and is this really just about the costume?!)? Do we get any other useful information about Lucas from the interviews?

A parallel I am drawing Wink

How do you mean, in terms of the costume? I was referring to the idea of Batman being the anti-archetypal hero; someone who is rather dark and twisted by his own desire for revenge, yet is still essentially a hero at heart (if that's what you were asking? Sorry, I typed out my post in the early hours of the morning and may not have been very clear!).

There isn't much else about him in that particular snippet, I'll re-watch the clip and see if RA mentions anything else. I'm not sure he's spoken much about the finer points of Lucas' character though Sad

If only we could rope him in to explain to us exactly what was going on in Lucas' head!

Also, I was in London today looking at various art galleries, when I happened to stumble across this Blake quote in one of the exhibitions:

"I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create."

Naturally, my first thought was "Lucas!" (you know you're a fan of Spooks when... Wink

), so I thought I'd share it with you to support the argument that Lucas has a desire to control the system rather than be under its control, yet perhaps because of his inability to control the system surrenders his control to others? Interpret as you wish!

binkie · 13-12-2010, 10:35 PM

(13-12-2010 10:21 PM)Byatil Wrote:
(13-12-2010 09:20 AM)binkie Wrote: Interesting. Does Batman actually get a mention, or is this a parallel you are drawing (and is this really just about the costume?!)? Do we get any other useful information about Lucas from the interviews?

A parallel I am drawing How do you mean, in terms of the costume? I was referring to the idea of Batman being the anti-archetypical hero; someone who is rather dark and twisted by his own desire for revenge, yet is still essentially a hero at heart (if that's what you were asking? Sorry, I typed out my post in the early hours of the morning and may not have been very clear!).

There isn't much else about him in that particular snippet, I'll re-watch the clip and see if RA mentions anything else. I'm not sure he's spoken much about the finer points of Lucas' character though If only we could rope him in to explain to us exactly what was going on in Lucas' head!

Sorry, sorry, not your fault at all. I was being facetious about the costume. Something about the heroic caped crime fighter in black leather. Although, let's face it, the show pretty much made their own joke about that in 8.6 with Lucas in the biker gear. Actually, now I think about it, even the coat he wore for a couple of episodes of season 7 could suffice as a sort of parodic superhero costume. He was wearing the coat when carrying out his capture-and-turn exercise on Mr Kachimov, so the revenge angle is covered there as well Angel

Thanks for the interview information. I will keep an eye out for the season 7 boxset at a sensible price. Or, you know, work on perfecting my cross-continental mind-tapping skills to retrieve the necessary information direct from RA's brain. One of these options is bound to result in success Smile

BravoNine · 13-12-2010, 10:39 PM

The talking of the coats is interesting, considering now I have learned that often the costumes team have different kinds of coats for different types of filming.

I remember John Barrowman and David Tennant talking about having to film their running scenes in "hero coats" that are longer and look more flowing and cool, so I automatically thought of that when you guys mentioned the coats that Lucas wore in Series 7. They did kinda remind me of the hero coats! LOL! Big Grin

So maybe Richard was given hero coats to wear so that Lucas's movements would look cool and heroic-ish?

Byatil · 13-12-2010, 10:51 PM

Interesting points about the costumes! I'd assume the coats were supposed to have that "heroic" implication; the spooks also tend to wear coats with high collars which are buttoned up, which implies a sense of secrecy and authority.

I also thought it was interesting that Lucas always wore long-sleeved shirts, sometimes polo-necks, always covering a lot of skin. Presumably to cover the tattoos, as well as a subtle suggestion of his secretive nature? Depends how far costumes are considered in terms of character-development; I have no knowledge of the field whatsoever.

binkie · (This post was last modified: 14-12-2010 02:48 AM by binkie.)

(13-12-2010 10:21 PM)Byatil Wrote: Also, I was in London today looking at various art galleries, when I happened to stumble across this Blake quote in one of the exhibitions:

"I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create."

Naturally, my first thought was "Lucas!" (you know you're a fan of Spooks when... ), so I thought I'd share it with you to support the argument that Lucas has a desire to control the system rather than be under its control, yet perhaps because of his inability to control the system surrenders his control to others? Interpret as you wish!

Well spotted! What was the exhibition?

If I recall correctly (and there is every chance I don't), Blake gives these lines to Los - a figure emblematic of a sort of elemental imagination, who constantly and continually makes and re-makes his world, and bears responsibility (by his actions) for the creation of eternity.

Blake was a republican and a libertarian, pursuing a vision of dissent realised in a commitment to art and creativity as vital, experiential, necessary weapons against complacency and intellectual inertia. He was extremely distrustful of mathematics and science, the rational and analytical characteristics of which threatened his belief in the value of creative expression for its own sake.

I think the lines represent a moral, rather than a purposive, dilemma: create (renew) or die (atrophy or surrender). The assertion of one, Blake might suppose, would negate the capacity for the other. If you can create, you will survive. If you submit to the determination of another, you will be lost. Comparison within this illusory choice (illusory, because who, in Blake's rationale, would choose submission?) is redundant, a mere fiction of the tyranny of reason.

I agree, it would be very interesting to hear other interpretations of these lines. Blake always presents a potential for alternative readings.

Belle · 14-12-2010, 11:03 AM

(13-12-2010 10:21 PM)Byatil Wrote: Also, I was in London today looking at various art galleries, when I happened to stumble across this Blake quote in one of the exhibitions:

"I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create."

Naturally, my first thought was "Lucas!" (you know you're a fan of Spooks when... ), so I thought I'd share it with you to support the argument that Lucas has a desire to control the system rather than be under its control, yet perhaps because of his inability to control the system surrenders his control to others? Interpret as you wish!

My interpretation of the Blake quote is that there is a need for the person who says this, to live his/her life by his own rules, to make/create his own world and own thoughts and feelings in order to 'survive', not to give in to prescribed rules made by our society on how to behave, how to act and how to think. Because that would mean the dead of the soul, of the free thinking, of the ability to create. Whether it is in literature, arts, poetry,... or it is in the simple gestures that makes life worth while, creativity is indispensable and crucial, if there were to be only rules made by others to follow, without the possibility that lays within our creative mind to give those rules our own twists, we would lose the core of our self and be soulless shells.

I do not personaly think that there can't be creativity if there is reason, in fact I feel there is a need for both to exist, but there lays a danger in overreasoning creations to the point where they become mere letters on paper or paint on a canvas, or gestures towards people without meaning, where the true heart of the creation is lost in explanations.

As to how this conects with Lucas, I think that he chose Blake because the freedom of Blake's thinking attracted him very much, I guess that Lucas rather had a strict yought, followed by the severity of the MI5 training (not including S9 again Wink

) and all the harsh times and things he has seen during his time as an officer or while in prison. So maybe he loved Blake as a sort of rebelion towards the system he chose to be a part of (MI5).
I can imagine that he felt a deep desire to escape to a self created world, to survive mentaly, whilst he was in Russia, longin for an ability to shake the system he was in from his skin (maybe a literal translation ON his skin?), but he also felt the need to survive physical, and in order to do that he had to blend in with his inmates, hence the other tattoos.

Byatil · (This post was last modified: 14-12-2010 06:47 PM by Byatil.)

I'm afraid I don't recall the exhibition, but it was definitely in the Tate Britain on the 2nd floor. From looking at their website, they do appear to have an exhibition containing Blake's work (http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/explore/r...action=1), but as I saw the quote printed on a wall near the exhibitions of more 'modern' artists (ie Damien Hirst), I think it was part of the inspiration for another artists work. I wish I had time to check!

Other interesting Blake quotes:

“Do what you will, this world’s a fiction and is made up of contradiction.”
"He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence."
"If the Sun and Moon should ever doubt, they'd immediately go out."
"It is easier to forgive an enemy than to forgive a friend."
"Opposition is true friendship."
"The weak in courage is strong in cunning."
"What is the price of experience? Do men buy it for a song? Or wisdom for a dance in the street? No, it is bought with the price of all the man hath, his house, his wife, his children."
"When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend."