[spoilers] Harry and Ruth. The Wonder Years.

[Kirayuki]

(10-11-2010 04:30 PM)Silktie Wrote:  What I'm wondering, is in the scene after Harry rescues Ruth and she comes into his office to tell him he shouldn't have done it, she says that the man who did that isn't the Harry Pearce she knows. Why on earth does he then say that the man who kidnapped her wasn't the Lucas North they both knew? I don't get the point he was trying to make.

I think the point he was trying to make was that people do stupid things where love is involved and their decisions are not always in keeping with their general character. Lucas even brought it up not too long afterwards and Harry agreed with him.

[BravoNine]

(10-11-2010 06:01 PM)Kirayuki Wrote:  

(10-11-2010 04:30 PM)Silktie Wrote:  What I'm wondering, is in the scene after Harry rescues Ruth and she comes into his office to tell him he shouldn't have done it, she says that the man who did that isn't the Harry Pearce she knows. Why on earth does he then say that the man who kidnapped her wasn't the Lucas North they both knew? I don't get the point he was trying to make.

I think the point he was trying to make was that people do stupid things where love is involved and their decisions are not always in keeping with their general character. Lucas even brought it up not too long afterwards and Harry agreed with him.

Yeah I agree....honestly I can't say Lucas's choice in women were...ummmm how should I put it.....very well.... Lucas and women is like adding sodium into water, or a spark to dynamite, it's just an exploding mess and engulfs everyone else....

Harry however on the other hand at least snagged a lady who is brilliant, has her own mind, and maybe less crazy?

[Silktie]

(10-11-2010 06:01 PM)Kirayuki Wrote:  

(10-11-2010 04:30 PM)Silktie Wrote:  What I'm wondering, is in the scene after Harry rescues Ruth and she comes into his office to tell him he shouldn't have done it, she says that the man who did that isn't the Harry Pearce she knows. Why on earth does he then say that the man who kidnapped her wasn't the Lucas North they both knew? I don't get the point he was trying to make.

I think the point he was trying to make was that people do stupid things where love is involved and their decisions are not always in keeping with their general character. Lucas even brought it up not too long afterwards and Harry agreed with him.

Ah, okay, I can see that. I can't help but wonder how that conversation would have gone if they had not been interrupted. Would Harry have told Ruth then that Albany doesn't work?

[Fidget]

We have had Tariq interupting Harry & Ruth at moments when they have been talking now in ep 8 we had Dimitri bursting into Harry's office without knocking while they were talking, I think maybe he needs to have a talk to them.

[DogSoSmall]

Hi. I haven't posted here before, in fact have only just discovered this whole website, but it has been keeping me sane during the frustration of this latest series. Reading the opinions of the intelligent people on here has been much more satisfying than seeing what the writers have come up with (although, I am keeping the faith that all will be settled in S10 between Harry and Ruth). Bearing in mind I am a huge Richard Armitage fan, in the context of Spooks he has been completely incidental to me next to the totally riveting relationship between Harry and Ruth.

I absolutely love Ruth, she is my hero, but she has been driving me insane in this series, forcing me to find good reasons why she is being so hard on lovely Harry. I don't think any of it is about blaming Harry, it is all about blaming herself for what happened to George and Nico. Not only does she feel hugely guilty that she put them in danger purely by coming into their lives, but she also feels that any happiness she finds with Harry as a result of George's death and her return would be wrong because it has only been possible at their expense. I think the main reason she is putting so much effort into hardening her heart is something that I haven't seen mentioned on these boards. The fact is, when it came down to it and she had to make a choice between giving away the whereabouts of a WMD or seeing her loved ones killed, she chose to save the few over the many. She didn't know her knowledge was redundant. She chose love over the country - the thing she is now so furious with Harry for doing (I too think she doesn't know yet that the Albany file was worthless). I think she has admired Harry hugely for being able to make those life and death decisions and be able to always put the greater good first and she wants to emulate him but she doesn't know how. She is trying to do it by shutting out all feeling, so that if she ever is put in that position again (even if it's with Harry) she will be able to make a clinical decision without remorse - an impossibility for someone of her kind and empathetic nature which is why it is making her so miserable. Finding herself in the position last week of having to sacrifice her own life to protect another state secret, she was given the chance to make up for what she sees as her previous failure to protect mankind, so when Harry saved her he took what she saw as her chance of redemption away from her and she resented him for it.

Harry doesn't seem to have to be a hard and unfeeling person in order to make life and death decisions. He probably learnt long ago how to keep going and keep his humanity. I wish he would share how he does it with Ruth, as it would help her too. My theory on this is that Harry sees every innocent person who has to die to protect the masses as a soldier in the fight against the enemy. Soldiers who give up their lives for their country are heroes and deserve honour and respect. I imagine him paying each innocent person who dies the compliment of believing that if they had been asked to give up their lives to save millions that they would have done it, and he honours them for that. That way he can keep on appreciating the goodness of humanity and not become bitter and despairing.

I do hope the writers give us some sort of explanation and closure in the next series, regardless of the outcome. This catalogue of misunderstanding, lack of communication and interrupted moments between Ruth and Harry is just getting to be too much. For everything that we've invested in these characters I think we deserve to see them acknowledge the truth of their feelings to each other. PLEASE!

[Naivety]

I am sure that if Tariq had not come in and interupted them AGAIN, Harry would have told Ruth that Albany was useless. We will probably never know.

When they were clustered around the terminals watching the footage of the bomb in the tube station and Lucas demanded Harry meet him on the roof, Ruth suddenly understood what Harry had felt when she was in danger. The look she gave him after she shouted 'Harry!' was an unspoken acknowledgement, and that is why she backed down. She knew that the tables had been turned and it would have been contradicting herself if she had said anymore. Harry understood what she was not saying as well, saying 'it's my turn'.

My first thought when Ruth was sobbing, was that she thought Harry might be dead and she hadn't told him how she felt, that she had been too hard on him. I've tried watching it again to see if I felt the same, but you never get the same emotion watching it second time round. It was probably meant to be for Lucas, because everyone else was then shown to be upset as well. But I'm sure her tears were also meant to be cathartic. Hopefully when we come to the next series she will have moved on, and she will be much gentler with Harry.

[Tea Lady]

(14-11-2010 02:32 PM)DogSoSmall Wrote:  so when Harry saved her he took what she saw as her chance of redemption away from her and she resented him for it.

I do hope the writers give us some sort of explanation and closure in the next series, regardless of the outcome. This catalogue of misunderstanding, lack of communication and interrupted moments between Ruth and Harry is just getting to be too much. For everything that we've invested in these characters I think we deserve to see them acknowledge the truth of their feelings to each other. PLEASE!

I can't see for the life of me how they can do another full length angst series, unless they plan to turn the tables and have Harry back away from Ruth to protect her. Hopefully though, that would just be a knee jerk reaction to what happened. I can't see them eeking this out for another 8 episodes. Very much depends on whether S10 is the last though.

I agree about the redemption thing. I felt Ruth was angry. She was denied her turn, but then again Harry sees it as Ruth already had her turn, sacrificing herself in 5.5 and again in 8.1.

[Forever Secret]

(14-11-2010 03:38 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  I can't see for the life of me how they can do another full length angst series, unless they plan to turn the tables and have Harry back away from Ruth to protect her. Hopefully though, that would just be a knee jerk reaction to what happened. I can't see them eeking this out for another 8 episodes. Very much depends on whether S10 is the last though.

I agree about the redemption thing. I felt Ruth was angry. She was denied her turn, but then again Harry sees it as Ruth already had her turn, sacrificing herself in 5.5 and again in 8.1.

I cant imagine how they'd do it either, however Kudos did do the same with Ashes to Ashes, built it up and in the end there was no real happy ending... be prepared haha

I think S10 may be the last, there was also something said that the series would be cut to 6 episodes because of BBC cuts, I hope though Harry doesn't push her away, with the situation he's in it could one of 2 ways, he could get closer because he needs her Or he could push her away to try and protect her,But I really hope its not just another series of angst, I can understand S8 and 9 being about rebuilding their relationship after her being away, bit by bit, but there's been 2 whole series to built that up now, surely there should be a leap forward for them in S10

I agree I think Harry felt after what happened to George, (Which I think he blames himself for) and what happened in 5.5 he felt he owed her something, that the loss she had suffered he considered her turn, and now it was time for him to take his turn, risking his life for her again and willingly too

[Kirayuki]

(14-11-2010 03:38 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  I agree about the redemption thing. I felt Ruth was angry. She was denied her turn, but then again Harry sees it as Ruth already had her turn, sacrificing herself in 5.5 and again in 8.1.

That's a very good point. She may not have died but she's sacrificed almost everything for the job already.


Someone on the Fanfiction website has suggested that Harry and Ruth should just already be married at the start of next season. It would cut the problem of their will they wont they being dragged too long, make loads of people happy, open a new angle... come on Kudos pick up on this idea it's good!

[Aria]

(14-11-2010 05:08 PM)Kirayuki Wrote:  Someone on the Fanfiction website has suggested that Harry and Ruth should just already be married at the start of next season. It would cut the problem of their will they wont they being dragged too long, make loads of people happy, open a new angle... come on Kudos pick up on this idea it's good!

I've been reading that fic and its good, but I'd feel a bit cheated if they did that on the show. After years of will-they-won't-they angst, I want to see how they would get together, we deserve it.