[spoilers] Harry and Ruth. The Wonder Years.

[Kirayuki]

I wasn't suggesting that he was gving up Albany as a way out of his job... i was simply pointing out that he hasn't exactly been a shining example throughout this series.
I totally agree that it was a blind case of 'Ruth's in danger. Do whatever he asks of me'.

[harrbd]

I agree that Harry's first thought was for Albany / the Country, Ruth and maybe Lucas. However it was clear from episode 1 that Harry had had enough and wanted out. During the series he has struggled to make the decisions needed. By the end of episode 8 he had lost Albany, Lucas and Ruth's respect and devotion. Therefore you have to assume that mentally he is in a worse state and will still want to quit. During the episode Alec gives him a warning saying "Harry there will be no way back." Harry goes anyway and even tells the HS that he has given Albany to Lucas / Chinese.

Also, you have to take into consideration whether he would have the respect / confidence of Dimitri and Beth in view of the decisions he made.

All in all, the powers that be want him to go, he wants to go and his team probably don't have enough confidence in Harry to fight for him.

I think it looks bleak for Harry and I'm hoping that Ruth comes up with something really special to save him and get him back to how he used to be. She needs to for all our sakes as MI5 needs Harry and I want Peter Firth in Spooks !

[Silktie]

Interesting discussion! I'm taking my comments on Harry to the Harry thread, though.

Yes, I do think after the direction they took Harry/Ruth this season means that it'll have to be Ruth who takes the next step. It'd be cool if she chooses to take some action to save Harry's career as a way of showing she does still care for him.

[Kirayuki]

I have to say that in my opinion, just like some people say 'there can be no spooks without Harry' i think that 'there can be no Ruth in Spooks without Harry'. Not simply for the H/R element but i seriously doubt that if Harry left she'd be able to stick it out through more than two/three episode before up and leaving herself.

(Yes it would be interesting to see a new head of section D in spooks with Ruth still there... but i doubt if it was for the long haul she'd last more than a season at most before resigning).

[Forever Secret]

(27-11-2010 11:30 AM)Kirayuki Wrote:  I have to say that in my opinion, just like some people say 'there can be no spooks without Harry' i think that 'there can be no Ruth in Spooks without Harry'. Not simply for the H/R element but i seriously doubt that if Harry left she'd be able to stick it out through more than two/three episode before up and leaving herself.

(Yes it would be interesting to see a new head of section D in spooks with Ruth still there... but i doubt if it was for the long haul she'd last more than a season at most before resigning).

I agree,
It also reminds me of the moment in 8.4 just after Jo dies, when Harry asks Ruth of Jo was the ONLY reason she returned. Of course Jo was part of the reason, but after Jo's death she could've left again, but she didn't, she stuck around and stayed to work on The Grid again, because of Harry being there. He's part of the reason she stayed, because at that time she'd lost so much so quickly, Harry was really the only thing in her life that made much sense... If that makes sense
I still don't think she ever did blame him for what happened..and I also hope the George/Nico story doesn't crop up again in S10, there was enough of the guilt stuff in S9, it's really time to let Ruth move on

Even if Harry was gone I don't think Ruth could take being there long without him
If Harry leaves, there's a part of Ruth that goes with him, I just don't think it would be the same, and the H/R element is part of what keep me watching

[Tea Lady]

(27-11-2010 03:03 PM)Forever Secret Wrote:  It also reminds me of the moment in 8.4 just after Jo dies, when Harry asks Ruth of Jo was the ONLY reason she returned. Of course Jo was part of the reason, but after Jo's death she could've left again, but she didn't, she stuck around and stayed to work on The Grid again, because of Harry being there. He's part of the reason she stayed, because at that time she'd lost so much so quickly, Harry was really the only thing in her life that made much sense... If that makes sense

Good point. Jo was one of the reasons Ruth returned, but not the only reason. There were probably several reasons that included Harry though. She had no other home to go too.

Ruth, will not let Harry go or let him down again. I think she knows she let him down, by letting him go to Lucas like she did. She will not let his career end in disgrace, I am sure. She will fight tooth and nail to save him, and play dirty if she needs too. I would love Ruth to find some dirt on someone high up, and use it against them to save Harry. But, possibly Harry never finds out what she did. I would also love to see Ruth sabotaging an operation, to ruin any new Head of Section D.

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For those that didn't get to view the items for sale at the PF auction last week or didn't have the £820 () to win the 9.1 script, here is an image from the script, used on ebay. As you can see, the words originally used by Harry when asking Ruth to marry him, were even more unromantic! "Burnt pieces of Ros." Heavens Harry !! Way to get a woman to fall into your arms !

[Beatriz]

Thanks for that bit, TL!! WOW People are well-off! hahaha Thankfully they changed it, PF's idea?

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(27-11-2010 03:43 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  

(27-11-2010 03:03 PM)Forever Secret Wrote:  It also reminds me of the moment in 8.4 just after Jo dies, when Harry asks Ruth of Jo was the ONLY reason she returned. Of course Jo was part of the reason, but after Jo's death she could've left again, but she didn't, she stuck around and stayed to work on The Grid again, because of Harry being there. He's part of the reason she stayed, because at that time she'd lost so much so quickly, Harry was really the only thing in her life that made much sense... If that makes sense

Good point. Jo was one of the reasons Ruth returned, but not the only reason. There were probably several reasons that included Harry though. She had no other home to go too.

Ruth, will not let Harry go or let him down again. I think she knows she let him down, by letting him go to Lucas like she did. She will not let his career end in disgrace, I am sure. She will fight tooth and nail to save him, and play dirty if she needs too. I would love Ruth to find some dirt on someone high up, and use it against them to save Harry. But, possibly Harry never finds out what she did. I would also love to see Ruth sabotaging an operation, to ruin any new Head of Section D.

Yeah, I think she will do whatever it's in her hands to help him. And the outcome may be one or another depending whether series 10 is the last one... I think that'll be the main reason of the events in next series.
Of course, it will interesting to watch how Ruth, for example, reacts or copes with a new head of section D, but I can't see the show going on without Harry, as so many times this has been said here. I don't think she would last long.

[A Cousin]

(27-11-2010 03:43 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  She will not let his career end in disgrace, I am sure. She will fight tooth and nail to save him, and play dirty if she needs too. I would love Ruth to find some dirt on someone high up, and use it against them to save Harry. But, possibly Harry never finds out what she did. I would also love to see Ruth sabotaging an operation, to ruin any new Head of Section D.

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As you can see, the words originally used by Harry when asking Ruth to marry him, were even more unromantic! "Burnt pieces of Ros." Heavens Harry !! Way to get a woman to fall into your arms !

I have been thinking about that too. I think the tears at the end of 9.8 were a catharsis for her. About everything. Now, I'd really like to see her go to bat for Harry during the inquest. Thus turning the tables as it were. IMO, the only way Ruth would sabotage an operation is if it were not being handled honestly and with decency. Even for Harry. She still has to find out that Albany doesn't work and that there is to be an inquest into Harry at all. There's a whole episode right there!

As for the script, thanks for scanning that! I love that kind of stuff. I wonder who the catalyst was for cutting that bit: PF or the Director? Had they kept it, it would definitely have made Ruth response a bit more sympathetic.

[Forever Secret]

(27-11-2010 03:43 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  Good point. Jo was one of the reasons Ruth returned, but not the only reason. There were probably several reasons that included Harry though. She had no other home to go too.

Ruth, will not let Harry go or let him down again. I think she knows she let him down, by letting him go to Lucas like she did. She will not let his career end in disgrace, I am sure. She will fight tooth and nail to save him, and play dirty if she needs too. I would love Ruth to find some dirt on someone high up, and use it against them to save Harry. But, possibly Harry never finds out what she did. I would also love to see Ruth sabotaging an operation, to ruin any new Head of Section D.

Exactly, Jo convinced Ruth to return but she isn't the only reason and she's not the only reason Ruth chose to stay. After Jo died, it hit Ruth pretty hard but she had nowhere to run to, I remember Harry saying (whe it was mentioned for Ruth to return home) "She IS home" and I think he was right... there was no reason for her to go back to Cyprus... not any more

Oooh I hope she's doesn't let him down. I think whatever is coming Harry's way Ruth will fight for him, even if he gives up the fight himself.
And thats a good idea, about her digging up dirty on the higher Authority, although, I think she's fed up with all the lies, and somehow I don't think she could keep that from Harry forever, it's too much in her nature to tell the truth, lying really hurts her, and she can't take any more hurt
And yes, she still has to find out about Albany, unless that was in the mysteriously cut 48 hours

Oh my... that script ... thanks for scanning that
Oh Harry, how unromantic is THAT! *shakes head*
I'm glad that was changed in the end,
I don't think poor Harry was in the right frame of mind to be asking that question at all... I think what was probably running through his head was
"If I ask I won't lose her again"... it seems to me he proposed out of fear not so much out of love and his explantion for why he was asking her at Ros's funeral was more of an excuse than a reason, and I'm with Ruth on this one 'Neither the time or the place'
When I first watched it I went into shock...Asking her to marry him... was fine.. but at a colleagues funeral?... oh dear Harry

Maybe in S10 he'll ask again only this time at the right moment...

[binkie]

I'm posting in this thread for the first time. Hello!.

I have watched this show from the start, and am thoroughly invested in the history of the relationship between Harry and Ruth. I am curious, though, to understand exactly why there is so much support for the idea of Harry and Ruth as a happy (romantic) couple. Do we really think that Harry is right for Ruth, or even good for her, just because he loves her? What would Ruth get out of a long term emotional relationship with Harry except the knowledge that she is loved? She had this kind of relationship with George, and it does not seem to have been what she needed.

It seems to me sometimes that Harry puts a lot of invisible pressure on Ruth to be human and emotionally capable - perhaps because these are areas in which he feels himself to be lacking - and I wonder whether he is more in love with the idea of Ruth than he is actually in love with her as a complex and flawed human being.

I am not trying to undermine the optimism of this thread (I am a big fan of cheesecake myself). I just wonder what it is that we are in fact so invested in when we look at this relationship.