[spoilers] Harry and Ruth. The Wonder Years.

[HellsBells]

As long as Harry and Ruth are working together there will always be a will they/won't they. They love each other and if they stay within each others proximity they will continue to love each other. I think it can only end if one of them physically leaves and moves on with their life.

[Forever Secret]

(29-11-2010 02:47 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  As long as Harry and Ruth are working together there will always be a will they/won't they. They love each other and if they stay within each others proximity they will continue to love each other. I think it can only end if one of them physically leaves and moves on with their life.

Very true!

They can't help the fact they love each other, so working together all the time is going to keep the whole will they/ won't they thing going...the glances, the looks towards each other, the moment,s they'll all still appear in S10 but
If this investigation leads into Harry on suspension or something and off The Grid, I still think the will they/won't they thing would be going, I don't think Ruth would stand back and allow Harry's career and reptutation to be torn to shreds, I still think Ruth would want Harry in her life, even if he was off The Grid
But I hope one of them doesn't leave, especially if Ruth left it would leave poor Harry in pieces, he lost her once, to lose her again, it would hurt him a lot

[binkie]

(29-11-2010 07:13 AM)JHyde Wrote:  I'm confused as to how many of you think that there is still a 'will they/won't they' going on.

At least for now, it's over. Ruth said no.

Indeed she did. It will be interesting to see whether the show has the courage of its conviction on this matter. I would like to see their relationship develop in the aftermath of 'No', rather than having them reduced to the status of a sort of Ross-and-Rachel for the BBC drama department.

[A Cousin]

(29-11-2010 04:17 PM)binkie Wrote:  

(29-11-2010 07:13 AM)JHyde Wrote:  I'm confused as to how many of you think that there is still a 'will they/won't they' going on.

At least for now, it's over. Ruth said no.

Indeed she did. It will be interesting to see whether the show has the courage of its conviction on this matter. I would like to see their relationship develop in the aftermath of 'No', rather than having them reduced to the status of a sort of Ross-and-Rachel for the BBC drama department.

It is kind of an odd spin on Penelope's Web, isn't it? Penelope's Web as a symbol of something that is constantly being worked on but never finished. It is that state of being constantly unfinished is what keeps the will they/ won't they aspect to it for me.

For those that don't know the myth: Penelope is known for her cleverness rather than her beauty, which distinguishes her from all other mortal women in Greek mythology, as well as her sense of devotion and duty. After her husband, Odysseus (the man, the myth, the legend - literally), goes to fight the Trojan Wars, Penelope, holds off all suitors for 20 years by telling them that she will make a decision after she finishes her father-in-laws funeral shroud. It is all a clever ruse because she seemingly works on it during the day but unpicks it at night. Like Ruth is holding Harry off because she can't unpick everything that has happened between them and to them. Ruth talks about not being able to unpick everything they have been through, but I think she actually over-analysis it.

Much like I am probably doing right now....

[binkie]

(29-11-2010 07:28 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  

(29-11-2010 04:17 PM)binkie Wrote:  

(29-11-2010 07:13 AM)JHyde Wrote:  I'm confused as to how many of you think that there is still a 'will they/won't they' going on.

At least for now, it's over. Ruth said no.

Indeed she did. It will be interesting to see whether the show has the courage of its conviction on this matter. I would like to see their relationship develop in the aftermath of 'No', rather than having them reduced to the status of a sort of Ross-and-Rachel for the BBC drama department.

It is kind of an odd spin on Penelope's Web, isn't it? Penelope's Web as a symbol of something that is constantly being worked on but never finished. It is that state of being constantly unfinished is what keeps the will they/ won't they aspect to it for me.

For those that don't know the myth: Penelope is known for her cleverness rather than her beauty, which distinguishes her from all other mortal women in Greek mythology, as well as her sense of devotion and duty. After her husband, Odysseus (the man, the myth, the legend - literally), goes to fight the Trojan Wars, Penelope, holds off all suitors for 20 years by telling them that she will make a decision after she finishes her father-in-laws funeral shroud. It is all a clever ruse because she seemingly works on it during the day but unpicks it at night. Like Ruth is holding Harry off because she can't unpick everything that has happened between them and to them. Ruth talks about not being able to unpick everything they have been through, but I think she actually over-analysis it.

Much like I am probably doing right now....

I really like the choice you make of cultural reference to reinforce your point. It feels like a reference Ruth would make - and Harry would understand. Because of that, it extends the plot potential of the relationship that is unmade even as it is made. That in itself is the nature and quality of this relationship. The trick the writers will need to pull off next is to establish the extent to which both Harry and Ruth are aware of this, and the extent to which Harry in particular will accept it.

[Kirayuki]

(29-11-2010 10:54 PM)binkie Wrote:  

(29-11-2010 07:28 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  It is kind of an odd spin on Penelope's Web, isn't it? Penelope's Web as a symbol of something that is constantly being worked on but never finished. It is that state of being constantly unfinished is what keeps the will they/ won't they aspect to it for me.

For those that don't know the myth: Penelope is known for her cleverness rather than her beauty, which distinguishes her from all other mortal women in Greek mythology, as well as her sense of devotion and duty. After her husband, Odysseus (the man, the myth, the legend - literally), goes to fight the Trojan Wars, Penelope, holds off all suitors for 20 years by telling them that she will make a decision after she finishes her father-in-laws funeral shroud. It is all a clever ruse because she seemingly works on it during the day but unpicks it at night. Like Ruth is holding Harry off because she can't unpick everything that has happened between them and to them. Ruth talks about not being able to unpick everything they have been through, but I think she actually over-analysis it.

Much like I am probably doing right now....

I really like the choice you make of cultural reference to reinforce your point. It feels like a reference Ruth would make - and Harry would understand. Because of that, it extends the plot potential of the relationship that unmade even as it is made. That in itself is the nature and quality of this relationship. The trick the writers will need to pull off next is to establish the extent to which both Harry and Ruth are aware of this, and the extent to which Harry in particular will accept it.

I feel like i'm in the presence of a God... well two God's. So well put. *Applause*

(This is me running out of words to add to the current line of discussion but refusing to simply write, "I agree". )

[A Cousin]

(29-11-2010 11:06 PM)Kirayuki Wrote:  I feel like i'm in the presence of a God... well two God's. So well put. *Applause*

(This is me running out of words to add to the current line of discussion but refusing to simply write, "I agree". )

Hardly. Just making connections that probably don't exist.

I don't mean to imply that any of the creative forces of Spooks had Penelope's Web in mind when constructing the development of the H/R relationship in S9. Tragic love stories have been around for a really long time. One is bound to happen across a parallel at some point. I am sure the creative teams leave that kind "perusal of belly button lint" (as we say in my family) to us fans.

Besides, I am in awe of you! I have yet to figure out how to make fan vids. I watch yours over and over again.

[DogSoSmall]

I really like this Penelope's Web analogy too. Speaking on behalf of the terminally ignorant, can I ask whether Odysseus ever returns to Penelope? I suspect I know the answer, of course!!

[BravoNine]

(01-12-2010 07:17 AM)DogSoSmall Wrote:  I really like this Penelope's Web analogy too. Speaking on behalf of the terminally ignorant, can I ask whether Odysseus ever returns to Penelope? I suspect I know the answer, of course!!

He returns to Penelope after his long journey trying to get home, it is told in the Odyssey tale written by Homer. Odysseus returns home with the help of Goddess Athena and son Telemachus and take down the suitors who are trying to court Penelope and planning Telemachus's death.

[DogSoSmall]

I appreciated binkie's answer to my question about why can't this work, but it all still seems very ephemeral to me. What is it about humans that they seem to long for tragedy over happiness? Apparently realism and intellectual integrity demands it, but why? Two people love each other. So be together. There is no moral dilemma here other than a contrived one. They both have the same moral code. If they endanger the country by being together, then so does every single person who works for the intelligence services and has a partner, a child, a parent, a good friend. Should everyone in that job just be an island in order to have a successful career? Anyway, we've already seen that it's not being a couple that affects Harry's decisions. He chose to save Ruth after she had rejected him. Honest acknowledgment of their feelings and how they would want the other to react in future moral dilemma situations is the only useful way forwards.

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Oh thank you, Bravo Nine. I have just seen your reply.

Hope springs eternal!!