[spoilers] Harry and Ruth. The Wonder Years.

[Belle]

Thanks

I also think that would not be a good reason and if they may live to be eighty, I guess she will indeed feel like she has trown her chance to be happy, away. But people can make strange decisions in matters of the heart.
I do not know what her reasons to reject Harry, are, but I seem to be unable to make much sense of this whole S9!
I would like to hear/reed further thoughts on why you all think she said no.

[loladom]

When Ruth said 'no' and later explained why, she seemed to be speaking as though they would both retire and live in Sussex with nothing to do apart from lie to the neighbours. She did know Harry had resigned, and possibly didn't know he had changed his mind, but she didn't know this at the time of the proposal/refusal. Most the reasons just seemed like fear to me, the same fear as in the early days. I don't think George has anything to do with it.

She also said "we couldn't be closer than we are now" at first I thought she meant living together as husband and wife would not deepen their relationship, because it's already at that level. But the aftermath of both of them pulling away, Harry banning late night phone calls etc. barriers going up, now I'm wondering if she meant it wasn't possible for them to be closer than they are as work collegues (for whatever reason, it isn't possible in her mind to let him get any closer)

How do others view those words?

[watchstrap]

(02-12-2010 08:11 AM)yorkshiretyke Wrote:  As I am snowed in in darkest Yorkshire I have been watching series 8....how HandR have changed, in series 8 it appeared to be all Ruth, hand touches, looks, offers of drinks but then Ros goes and gets herself killed and bang! Ruth is angry and bitter, Harry appears to be grieving and desperate for comfort from Ruth (and not getting it!)...so surely series 10 should be a new dawn for both of them...

Question of the day...should I rewatch series 9, something I have put off as I found it too heartbreaking??

Ha, Ha, I am snowed in in Sussex Yorkshiretyke and no chance of a rewatch here, S9 or otherwise as the children are off school and have commandeered the TV for a big Merlin rewatch!

Go for it and rewatch S9, it does look so much the better 2nd time around, in fact I like it a lot more than S8, especially now I can watch it with the knowledge that both Harry and Ruth make it to the end in one piece.

I think Ruth refused because if she had accepted she feels she would have laid herself open to more hurt. Despite saying no, she hasn't really made it clear to him what the parameters of their 'new' relationship are, rather she's left that up to him. Trouble with keeping all your options open is that life has a tendency to close them down for you. Hence Ruth's 'I've balls it up again look' when Harry went off to meet his possible death with Lucas.

[DogSoSmall]

I think it's quite possible that Ruth said no because she was afraid of anyone getting close to her. Seeing herself as the direct cause of George's death and Nico's orphan status I can see her not wanting to risk anyone else's safety by allowing them near. Every time Harry takes a risk for her she is furious. Hopefully she will realise after Albany that it really doesn't matter if she loves him back, he will still always take that risk for her, so she might as well just give in and love him back.........hopefully.

I agree that I am looking forward to watching S9 again without the constant fear that Harry or Ruth might meet their end. I am sure I will enjoy it much more. (I wasn't bothered about Lucas, which is quite weird because I was (and still am) a massive Richard Armitage fan. I just could never warm to Lucas - I think because of his truly appalling taste in women. The only time he became interesting was when he started getting relaxed and funny around Ros.) Thought I'd better put that in brackets as it wasn't about Harry and Ruth - who are never boring and who have excellent taste!!

---

(02-12-2010 08:39 PM)loladom Wrote:  She also said "we couldn't be closer than we are now" at first I thought she meant living together as husband and wife would not deepen their relationship, because it's already at that level. But the aftermath of both of them pulling away, Harry banning late night phone calls etc. barriers going up, now I'm wondering if she meant it wasn't possible for them to be closer than they are as work collegues (for whatever reason, it isn't possible in her mind to let him get any closer)

How do others view those words?

I don't know how to view those words. This is the line that bugs me most of all from the entire series because I just don't know what she could possibly have meant. I interpreted Harry's enigmatic expression after she said that as "what the **@* are you on about, woman?" Or maybe that's just what I was thinking!

[Belle]

I rewatched 8.4 yesterday and, when Ruth and Harry sat on that bench to talk about Jo's death, there was already a feeling of rejection by Ruth. I got the feeling everytime Harry tried to get closer to her, she warded him off and changed the subject so she wouldn't have to deal with their feelings for each other.
Don't know if, at that moment, it had to do with Ruth still being angry at Harry for what happened to George or if it was an indicator for the fact that she would eventualy say 'no'.

Also, when Harry answered to her question if there was something else, he said 'there will always be something else' (or 'more'; sorry can't remember the exact word), I didn't know if he ment that he understood the way Ruth held him responsible for what happened to George or if he thought about the unspoken feelings between them.
Maybe Ruth ment, when she said 'we couldn't be closer than we are now', that because of the work they do and all the grief they share (for colleagues, for the evil in the world,..) they have a bond wich goes very deep and is very strong and if they would resign and just be together, maybe she is scared that that bond would be lost?

What I also don't understand (seems like I'm a bit dumb ) is why they would have to resign if they want to be together, when Ruth said 'what would we talk about with the neighbours' I got the sense it implied that, if they would become 'lovers' there would be no place for MI5 anymore in their lives, why is that? It's not that the service would reject them if they would marry, Adam and Fiona were married too and they still could do their job.
Or maybe that is the reason Ruth rejected Harry's proposal, because she thinks that if they come together, they wouldn't be able to do their saving-England-work anymore?

[JHyde]

We had a MASSIVE discussion about that line when the episode first aired. 'There'll always be something else, Ruth.'

The general consensus was that it was equal parts saying that there will always be work and what comes next and that there will also always be Harry and Ruth.

It's still one of the best, most succinct scenes in the entire show.

[Belle]

(03-12-2010 12:43 PM)JHyde Wrote:  We had a MASSIVE discussion about that line when the episode first aired. 'There'll always be something else, Ruth.'

The general consensus was that it was equal parts saying that there will always be work and what comes next and that there will also always be Harry and Ruth.

It's still one of the best, most succinct scenes in the entire show.

Ok, I've missed that discussion, sorry

[JHyde]

Oh no, I wasn't dissing you, Belle. I know you weren't here when that discussion took place, I was just saying.

You're not the only one, the forum is 3 times as big as it was last season.

[Belle]

Ok, thanks!

I must say I really enjoy this forum very much, it's indeed very 'alive and kicking' !

[A Cousin]

(03-12-2010 11:29 AM)Belle Wrote:  Maybe Ruth ment, when she said 'we couldn't be closer than we are now', that because of the work they do and all the grief they share (for colleagues, for the evil in the world,..) they have a bond wich goes very deep and is very strong and if they would resign and just be together, maybe she is scared that that bond would be lost?

What I also don't understand (seems like I'm a bit dumb ) is why they would have to resign if they want to be together, when Ruth said 'what would we talk about with the neighbours' I got the sense it implied that, if they would become 'lovers' there would be no place for MI5 anymore in their lives, why is that? It's not that the service would reject them if they would marry, Adam and Fiona were married too and they still could do their job.
Or maybe that is the reason Ruth rejected Harry's proposal, because she thinks that if they come together, they wouldn't be able to do their saving-England-work anymore?

Hi Belle! Welcome to Harry and Ruth Land! Believe me when I tell you that we LOVE to discuss and rediscuss this topic! I have only been registered since April of this year and I am sure I brought up topics that had already been talked to death. The fun of it is everyone brings their own POV and sometimes something that has not been thought of before.

That said, last night I went back into the Old Ruth and Harry thread because that is where we had the discussion about 9.1. Harry and Ruth Strike Back I think it's called? It was too long and had to be closed - LOL! - thus this thread. There is also a lot of discussion in the Ruth thread too but I haven't reread it yet. Once again there was a lot of discussion re: Ruth's intentions during 9.1.

Anyhoo, to be the pedant that I am, the actual line is "We couldn't be more together than we are right now." I think the distinction is important because she isn't questioning their closeness. That is there. That has always been there and will continue to be. IMO, (and with 20/20 hindsight of the whole of S9) what she is questioning is the complicated nature of their connection. It is a connection so tied up in the personal and professional that they cannot be disconnected without one or the other suffering. And she doesn't want either to suffer. One must remember that at that moment, she thinks he is going to resign. She doesn't know that he retracted it. So, to her mind, he is asking her to change the natural habitat of their relationship.