[spoilers] Harry and Ruth. The Wonder Years.

[JHyde]

We've actually had 3 HR threads. This is the third and current one obviously, Strike Back was the second. The first one was just Harry and Ruth.

I can't believe this one is 40 pages already, I'll start another once it hits 51.

The 8.4 discussion should be somewhere around the 21st/22nd November last year, which I am pretty sure is in the Strike Back thread.

[Belle]

(03-12-2010 02:34 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  Hi Belle! Welcome to Harry and Ruth Land! Believe me when I tell you that we LOVE to discuss and rediscuss this topic! I have only been registered since April of this year and I am sure I brought up topics that had already been talked to death. The fun of it is everyone brings their own POV and sometimes something that has not been thought of before.

That said, last night I went back into the Old Ruth and Harry thread because that is where we had the discussion about 9.1. Harry and Ruth Strike Back I think it's called? It was too long and had to be closed - LOL! - thus this thread. There is also a lot of discussion in the Ruth thread too but I haven't reread it yet. Once again there was a lot of discussion re: Ruth's intentions during 9.1.

Anyhoo, to be the pedant that I am, the actual line is "We couldn't be more together than we are right now." I think the distinction is important because she isn't questioning their closeness. That is there. That has always been there and will continue to be. IMO, (and with 20/20 hindsight of the whole of S9) what she is questioning is the complicated nature of their connection. It is a connection so tied up in the personal and professional that they cannot be disconnected without one or the other suffering. And she doesn't want either to suffer. One must remember that at that moment, she thinks he is going to resign. She doesn't know that he retracted it. So, to her mind, he is asking her to change the natural habitat of their relationship.

Thanks for the welcome!
Sorry about the misquoting!
The distinction is indeed very important, because it is indeed pointing out the total conectedness between work and private.
Ruth (and Harry) are walking an extremely thin line between those two things and I do believe that it's because Ruth (more than Harry) don't want to give up MI5 that she is denying her feelings for Harry.
I wonder if she thinks that, now she has given up so much already for MI5, it would make no sense to give up MI5 instead? That it would otherwise mean that all those killed would have died in vain if she was to choose herself over the work?
I also wonder if she would react different if he would ask the same question again (wich his proud propably won't let him) ,now that he will not resign (totaly disregarding the possible investigation towards Harry).

[Kirayuki]

I've already touched that a little as i do believe it's a valid point which i could discuss for quite a while. There is alot to it.

I figured a while ago that she is playing a similar card to the one Jo played when Adam died. (She came back to work to honour his memory). I don't think she has it in her to be selfish enough to leave. That and i figure it's being unfair on them for her to quit now she's come so far. (This is also shown by her painful line to Harry about it being unfair in 9.8).

She has also lived for her work for such a long time in her life that without it she would probably feel she's become useless.

(03-12-2010 02:44 PM)JHyde Wrote:  We've actually had 3 HR threads. This is the third and current one obviously, Strike Back was the second. The first one was just Harry and Ruth.

I can't believe this one is 40 pages already, I'll start another once it hits 51.

Wow. We've used three threads already!

[Belle]

Oh god, 3 threads, I have got a lot of catching up to do!

I like your comparison with the way Jo handled Adam's death, Kirayuki, I never thought of Ruth and her emotions towards Harry and her work in that way! Something I definatly will think about!

[Kirayuki]

Thankyou.

I've thought about that line of reason quite a bit and it does seem to make sense. It's a bit of a different angle to view from as well.

[DogSoSmall]

This has been a very helpful line of discussion for me. It really did drive me crazy that Ruth seemed to assume that marrying Harry automatically meant giving up MI5 and a working relationship with him. It makes much more sense if she believed at that point that he had resigned. I hadn't picked up on that, because by that point the audience knew that he was staying. Spooks does this quite a lot. Leaves us to guess at what conversations have happened behind the scenes when we weren't watching! It means you can't ever be quite sure what they know and what they are reacting to, eg, did the team hear Harry telling Lucas that Albany was useless? Did they know Lucas was dead when we got the shot of Ruth crying? What happened in that 48 hours? (Not 24 hours, but 48 - that's a significant amount of time. They will surely have to fill that in at the start of S10. Big ploy to give themselves time for a little think about it)

[Silktie]

I think she may actually have known by then that he's not resigning. The discussion before she gives her little spiel is about how he's decided to offer Beth a job. That's a very clear indication to her that he's staying, because if he was still resigning, it would not be up to him to offer Beth the job.

[DogSoSmall]

Rats! Back to square one.

To cheer ourselves up, has everyone seen the great video that Inker put up on the Spooks Video thread on 27th November? It's hilarious.

[Kirayuki]

Yes I have. It's amusing.

I think that this series did feel like a swan song for both of them to be perfectly honest. If next series isn't the last and they don't both leave in it, or one die, etc... then I have no idea how it could be continued. This seemed to be like the 'nearing the end of the road' series if you get my meaning. Conclusion ahead. (Well I hope. )

[loladom]

Going back to the pre season interview with NW that someone kindly posted -
Now S9 has fully aired, I think it's safe to say she was being tongue in cheek. Because how HR have "dealt with their relationship in a mature and adult way" is beyond me. They've done more snipping this show than in any previous ones, including S8 when Ruth's pain was raw. They've still danced around each other, taking steps towards each other before scurrying back for shelter in their respective caves. The season ends with both of them tantruming over the other's actions and playing a very pointed tit-for-tat game.

So NW was leading us all down the garden path with this "resolution" claim. Naughty, naughty, how very dare she