Series 9 Episode 4 discussion

[Quill]

(13-10-2010 04:21 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  

(13-10-2010 12:52 PM)FATBOY Wrote:  Did anyone catch exactly what Kai say’s to Beth at the end, before he goes back to the embassy. Something like “Remember me to ‘paulina’ “ ??

I think he said "Remember me to Li" (as in Jiang Li).

No, I think he said "don't remember me too poorly. "

[Silktie]

I loved the threat of the week part of the story. Industrial espionage is a huge industry, and it was good to see it explored a little bit. I liked the interesting twist that it was in fact the US that "stole" China's scientist and thus their knowledge, and that China was basically trying to prevent her knowledge from being used by the US and UK. I loved Kai, I found him very human, and his scenes with Beth were great. My favourite Beth part of the episode was when she told Kai that he better look Jiang in the eye if he was going to shoot her. Her desperation came through in that scene fantastically well.

LOVED Harry and the HS' scenes, these two are just brilliant and tremendously entertaining. Their interaction has allowed them to bring some humour back to Spooks, for which I am eternally grateful. Also, it has allowed them to give Harry his mojo back, and the pithy one-liners are back in force. My favourite was Harry asking: "What are we in this, Guantanamo for boffins?" Bwah!

Ruth was fantastic. I'm so happy to see them do more with this character, and I'm sure NW is jumping for joy at the chance to be something other than the exposition fairy. She really is cool under pressure, isn't she? Also very happy to see her compassion make a return, in that scene with Beth and with Jiang. We need Ruth to sometimes put a human face on the numbers game, and I'm glad the writers remembered that.

Harry and Ruth was nicely handled in this episode, I thought, very understated and totally integrated into the main storyline.

I am totally befuddled by the Lucas storyline. I sincerely hope you all are correct and that he is playing some big double-bluff on Vaughn and Maya, but at the same time I have to admit I don't see it. If Harry was in on the whole thing, why was he so annoyed at Lucas disappearing and not answering his phone? That's taking the whole deception pretty far. Also, I don't pick up a false note in Lucas' scenes with Maya, so unless Lucas is a better actor than even RA, my impression is that he is really into the Maya thing boots and all. Please let me be wrong about this though, otherwise it'll be hard to redeem Lucas in my eyes. And if it does turn out that he sold out that poor sod just to save his own ass and secure a rosy future with Maya, he'll do well to remember that karma is a bitch who'll sneak up and smack him in the mouth when he least expects it.

And in this case, it would seem, Karma -Thy Name is Ruth.

[Katja]

(13-10-2010 01:19 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  

Ok, Stephen Owen is 22yrs old, born 1989. His record says he is an Agent with 8 years service. So...

1) Kudos error.
2) The record is false. Hastily constructed.
3) Stephen really did start working for MI5 when he was 14yrs old.
4) None of the above....

Funny! Of course "young" Mr. Owen does have level 7 clearance--wonder if he changed his age himself to go with his midlife crisis

[A Cousin]

(13-10-2010 05:55 PM)Silktie Wrote:  And if it does turn out that he sold out that poor sod just to save his own ass and secure a rosy future with Maya, he'll do well to remember that karma is a bitch who'll sneak up and smack him in the mouth when he least expects it.

And in this case, it would seem, Karma -Thy Name is Ruth.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!!!! That dogged brilliant bitch.... Not only is she NOT only the exposition fairy, she is not there to simply develop Harry's character. Although I fear for her a bit with Lucas. He is very dark so far this series.

[Sir Harry]

Talking of errors....I watched this episode for the four time today (I enjoyed it that much!) and noticed a little 'slip' in the first HS and Harry scene. Has anyone else noticed that when the HS is at his desk with his coffee talking about "if you roll over you sometimes get your tummy tickled", he very clearly takes his glasses off and puts them onto his table. Cut to a shot of Harry and then straight back to the HS and amazingly he is wearing his glasses again announcing "I don't think they have put the hazlenut syrup in". Even more strangely, the shot goes to Harry who stands up and replies "Home Secretary", cue shot of the HS and alas, no glasses now!!

Normally I don't notice things but I am sure this happens. What do you think guys?

[khananel]

Nitrus said;
"I could not disagree with you more on almost every point you made. It is totally plausible that Tariq can do all of the things he does, it's even probable that he can do it *better* than Malcolm could.

You seem to have a real problem with the age of the cast, for reasons I can't comprehend. As for your comments on the training of Beth & Dimitri, it's pretty clear from the little history we know of them that they are basically trained already. Dimitri would've been trained in counter-intelligence while training for the SBS and Beth has been a private security contractor for years, giving her the experience she needs."

OK, tell me how its plausible, for Tariq to do what he does, without experience of all such systems? Secondly, yes in any Government agency you have a mix of youth and experience with the older 'leading' the younger. That seems normal to me. And experienced specialists train neophytes.

Dimitri would have been trained in intelligence gathering, inflitration and sabotage in the SBS. I somehow doubt he would have been trained in counter intelligence.

And how does Beth's training as a private security contractor prepare her for dealing with specific ethnic groups, unless she has experience of cultures and languages that, as yet we are unaware she has?

I'm afraid in my opinion it just doesn't hang together, unless anyone can show otherwise... But then maybe they're making it for an audience that isn't really bothered by all this. Fair enough. In my opinion, in the early series the storylines and cast were so enthralling I didn't bother with illogicalities. Now it seems that's all that I notice... Shame really.

[Nitrus]

(13-10-2010 07:38 PM)khananel Wrote:  OK, tell me how its plausible, for Tariq to do what he does, without experience of all such systems?

There are tools which automate most of this for you. You just give it an IP address and it will scan the system for vulnerabilities, automatically find exploits to take advantage of the vulnerabilities and then report all this back so it can be used to hack into the system.

(13-10-2010 07:38 PM)khananel Wrote:  Dimitri would have been trained in intelligence gathering, inflitration and sabotage in the SBS. I somehow doubt he would have been trained in counter intelligence.

Counter intelligence IS intelligence gathering.

(13-10-2010 07:38 PM)khananel Wrote:  And how does Beth's training as a private security contractor prepare her for dealing with specific ethnic groups, unless she has experience of cultures and languages that, as yet we are unaware she has?

You just answered your own question. Just because we are not aware that she has, doesn't imply that she definitely hasn't.

[BoHenley]

With the Lucas storyline, I think we're being duped. Most of us have said his behaviour is out-of-character. Let's stick to what we know. He's loyal. He might've been "thrown" by Vaughan turning up, but he'll work it (eventually) to MI5's advantage. At this stage, he possibly hasn't worked out all the pieces, nor will Harry know EVERYTHING that Lucas does -how could he? But I'm sticking to "Lucas is loyal" and "Harry knows about Lucas's past." The way the story develops will be the fun part.

And I wouldn't worry about Ruth. Kudos aren't dumb. They know they'd be DEAD if anything serious happens to her.

But I agree, we need background story on the Lucas/Vaughan thing fast.

[age1021]

(13-10-2010 05:04 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  Bit of a coincidence that Lucas' phone rang just before his house was broken into, don't you think? What if he was being watched by 5 and that was Lucas' tip off that Vaughn was breaking in? Also, just before Maya appeared downstairs in blue shirt, it really sounds like the front door of his flat opens and closes. What is that noise, if not his front door?

So I wonder if Harry tips Lucas off, Lucas goes downstairs and acts surprised to find the photo. Vaughn is stuck in the house somewhere unable to get out. Vaughn gets Maya to let him out through the front door. Lucas hears the front door go and grabs the knife thinking he is still in the house.

Just a thought anyway.

Maybe she went to get her coat out of the closet? That's what the sound is?
OR maybe she was looking for Lucas? So she closed the door....

[FATBOY]

Am sure Kai must be a Chinese spook, but this being so why did he not find/confess to knowing about the bugs in his flat which Beth found in minutes?

Is this significant or just another hole in the storyline?

A quick thought on Albany - it's an anagram of 'any lab'

I saw the comment about the 18th centaury warship, presumably HMS Albany, but this is not contemporary with the battle of Trafalgar.