Series 9 Episode 6 discussion

[Tigerwolf]

Not got a clue what is going to happen, which makes it all the better. What a fab episode, I cant wait to see it again, I can't beleive that we only have 2 more episodes boo hoo..., Am loving it.

[BravoNine]

(26-10-2010 08:00 AM)Naivety Wrote:  

(26-10-2010 07:50 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  Lucas is still very well redeemable even after this. He did not kill the girl, even with an order from "Harry", he still did not cross that line. He may have hesitated for a few seconds in calling the ambulance when he heard her utter the words "Albany", his fingers may have slightly released pressure, but at that point there was nothing he could really do, she was dying, he wasn't gonna bring her back anyways. It was not Lucas who put a gun to her head and shot her in cold blood, it was the bad guys who lured Lucas into that situation where she ended up being shot, Lucas was the one trying to save her.

When he heard her say that she wouldn't tell anyone about 'Albany' he stopped trying to save her life and took the pressure off her neck. I agree that she may have died anyway, but he allowed her to die because he was saving his own skin. That may not be murder but still...

I guess I'm viewing it in a different lens. It could have been worse considering the so many other horrible scenarios it could have turned out to be. I agree that it wasn't good that he took the pressure off, I'm resisting the urge to smack him upside the head for his stupidity, but with that much blood already coming out of her, she was gonna bleed to death whether he kept the pressure or not. So in the end, that slight difference in pressure wasn't really gonna save her.

If I seem chipper, it's probably because out of all the horrible scenarios I have envisioned in my own head, things actually turned out more okay than I had ever imagined. So in that sense, I guess I can forgive Lucas for his one moment of horrible judgment.

I still think that there is still room for redemption for Lucas. And I hope Harry stops him from doing even more stupid things.

[khandy]

I have to say that for me no matter how they spin this Lucas did cross the line he let that girl died. I actually felt sick watching it the way he said those words of comfort.

I really cannot see any plausable reason that the writers can come up with that can resolve that scene. It doesn't matter that she probably would have died. The problem I have is I could buy this whole Lucas story line if he always shown more ambuguity or cruelty but in series 7 and 8 he was at core a very moral man.

BUT

The acting from Richard Armitage is absolutely fantastic I can't imagine hiow draining this series must have been for him. The image of him in the cat at the begining was just heartbreaking.

The absolutely sick feeling he gave me as he held Danielle.

The switches from cool Lucas to emotional wrought John. It is just the sheer range he has to show that amaze me.

[Silktie]

Awesome episode! Malcolm still rocks, how great was it to see him back?

Like most everyone else, I have absolutely no idea what is going on. At this point I suspect everyone of having ulterior motives for everyhting they do. One thing is certain, though, Lucas is dead to me after what happened in this episode. If he hadn't lost the blonde one's security detail in the first place to go after Malcolm, they would have known much sooner something was wrong on the Grid. Plus, he would have had help during that ambush, and Danielle would probably have survived. Lucas definitely ended the call to the emergency services the moment Danielle uttered the word Albany, and then only pretended to make it to fool her. He then took his fingers off her wound so that she would bleed to death faster, and probably then called the emergency services again so no-one would realise what he'd done.

That said, it was a fantastic performance from RA, he really ran with what they gave him. Well done, sir.

Loved Harry snarking the cyberterrorists over the camera, loved Dimitri and Beth as well.

But MALCOLM was back! The highlight of the episode for me. I got really worried when Malcolm dug up the VERY SECRET Albany file from his garden at first - I was thinking he could have at least put it in a safety deposit box or something... Great twist that it was false information, and that Malcolm was onto the game from the start. I have no clue how this all fits together, and who knows what. I'll have to wait and see.

The main problem of the Lucas storyline, for me, is that we still don't know what happened in his past to make him act like this. Now we have no idea whether it is something that is really so terrible that he cannot go to Harry and confess all, and we have no perspective on why this has had such an impact on him. Harry, it seems, is unwilling to believe anything bad about Lucas, and I can't help but think if Lucas had only gone straight to Harry the moment Vaughn contacted him, Harry would have been willing to help him sort it out.

[BravoNine]

(26-10-2010 08:29 AM)khandy Wrote:  I have to say that for me no matter how they spin this Lucas did cross the line he let that girl died. I actually felt sick watching it the way he said those words of comfort.

I felt that gut-wrenching sickness too when watching Lucas with the girl in his arms. Personally, I think he more crossed the line into insanity than anything else. Whether it's cowardice or just plain desperation, I can see that as a spy, he could reason that the girl's death was unavoidable, that she was going to die either way, that sometimes one has to make unsavory choices (i.e. don't try to save the girl) to protect others (i.e. make sure Maya stays alive).

(26-10-2010 08:29 AM)khandy Wrote:  I really cannot see any plausable reason that the writers can come up with that can resolve that scene. It doesn't matter that she probably would have died. The problem I have is I could buy this whole Lucas story line if he always shown more ambuguity or cruelty but in series 7 and 8 he was at core a very moral man.

Lucas has always had shades of ambiguity, always toeing the line between right and wrong. Cruelty is not in his character but he does have a dark side that is a result of his tormented and tortured psyche. I can believe that if pushed to the brink, or backed to the wall with nowhere to turn to, Lucas's hold on stability can be fragile where desperation will push him into doing things he normally wouldn't do. There is a part of Lucas that is a survivor who will do anything to survive, if he didn't have that side of him, I don't think he would have survived 8 years in Russia.

Yes Lucas did let that girl die in fear that she would talk about Albany, but that decision clearly weighs very heavily on him as one can tell from his expression and his eyes. This choice is eating him up inside and he hates himself for doing it. I think having to face the guilt inside himself everyday is a punishment in itself, and one that Lucas rightly deserves.

(26-10-2010 08:29 AM)khandy Wrote:  The acting from Richard Armitage is absolutely fantastic I can't imagine hiow draining this series must have been for him. The image of him in the cat at the begining was just heartbreaking.

The absolutely sick feeling he gave me as he held Danielle.

The switches from cool Lucas to emotional wrought John. It is just the sheer range he has to show that amaze me.

Richard has indeed displayed amazing ability to switch from one persona to another, and in his eyes you can tell what Lucas is thinking and how much fear, desperation, and hatred he feels. How he wants to stop this more than anything, but he can't. There is so much torment within Lucas, and Richard is able to bring all that darkness to the surface.

(26-10-2010 09:25 AM)Silktie Wrote:  One thing is certain, though, Lucas is dead to me after what happened in this episode. If he hadn't lost the blonde one's security detail in the first place to go after Malcolm, they would have known much sooner something was wrong on the Grid. Plus, he would have had help during that ambush, and Danielle would probably have survived. Lucas definitely ended the call to the emergency services the moment Danielle uttered the word Albany, and then only pretended to make it to fool her. He then took his fingers off her wound so that she would bleed to death faster, and probably then called the emergency services again so no-one would realise what he'd done.

LOL, sorry, the "dead to me" quote had me giggling for a bit. A character on a show I used to watch always said "You're dead to me" to other characters who betrayed him. It was like a catch-phrase!

Yes, Lucas made quite a mess of things hadn't he. I'm not gonna defend his choice and actions even though I still love him very much. But he messed up, and frankly, he will be carrying that guilt and the consequences with him forever. Something is not functioning correctly in his head, whatever it is, it's wrecking havoc on Lucas's mental stability because he is really losing it. This Albany thing has turned him into one crazy person.

(26-10-2010 09:25 AM)Silktie Wrote:  The main problem of the Lucas storyline, for me, is that we still don't know what happened in his past to make him act like this. Now we have no idea whether it is something that is really so terrible that he cannot go to Harry and confess all, and we have no perspective on why this has had such an impact on him. Harry, it seems, is unwilling to believe anything bad about Lucas, and I can't help but think if Lucas had only gone straight to Harry the moment Vaughn contacted him, Harry would have been willing to help him sort it out.

Ah but if Lucas had confessed, we would not be having this mind-twisting storyline eh?

I have the same problem that you have with this storyline, I just wanna know WHAT secret that is so terrible that Lucas would go this far to let innocent people be hurt to cover it up?

[khandy]

I have to say in my opinion that the only time there has been any ambiguity about him was in episode two series 7 and that was immediately resolved.

Yes he is damaged but for me that is more in his ability to form relationships as a result of his imprisonment.

I think in the business with Sarah is after he finds out that Sarah killed Walker he is then told by Ros to find out why was it kill order excetra or was she a bad one.

In this series he has become completely different and that death scene was sinister cold and calculating.

[BravoNine]

(26-10-2010 09:50 AM)khandy Wrote:  Yes he is damaged but for me that is more in his ability to form relationships as a result of his imprisonment.

The fact that Lucas survived through his 8 years of torture in Russia with still coherent functions is miracle enough. The damage of an imprisonment like that extends far beyond just an inability to form relationships. It damages deep into his soul and he may have a cool calm front to control himself but there is a dark part of himself that came to being so that he could survive through his imprisonment.

(26-10-2010 09:50 AM)khandy Wrote:  In this series he has become completely different and that death scene was sinister cold and calculating.

I wouldn't call it as sinister cold and calculating as it was more of a regretful but necessary decision. In his eyes, you can see the shame and guilt of his choice hitting him.

[agent68]

I am still not entirely convinced Lucas let her die. He released 3 fingers but kept his first finger on the wound until she died.

I do also think I'm desperate to find a way out of this mess for Lucas - the term grasping at straws comes to mind!

[BravoNine]

(26-10-2010 10:30 AM)agent68 Wrote:  I am still not entirely convinced Lucas let her die. He released 3 fingers but kept his first finger on the wound until she died.

I do also think I'm desperate to find a way out of this mess for Lucas - the term grasping at straws comes to mind!

Maybe I am crazy, but I have a feeling that Lucas will be able to find a way out of this mess, if Harry is willing to back Lucas up and help, then I think something can be done. The previews seem to indicate Harry and Lucas having a civilized talk rather than pointing guns at each other, so there's always a good sign.

[Akira]

There's so many theories flying round, and plausible detailed explanations, but to cut it short, I think Lucas is (or is part) a very very dark and tortured character (RA does these brilliantly!) but he is not 100% rotten to the core - but instead caught between a very rocky rock and very hard hard place, and that and his past and the imprisonment etc is taking its toll on him and making him go doolally - everyone snaps after so much...