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agent68 · 29-10-2010, 07:22 AM

(29-10-2010 01:27 AM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote: These are the reasons I began to suspect Ruth,

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I've taken out all your comments to save repeating it all but yes I totally agree with you. Especially as Spooks is known for its twists and turns.

Tea Lady · 29-10-2010, 09:28 AM

This is going into the speculation arena again but if Ruth IS revealed as a traitor in the final episodes (which I don't suspect for one minute, not because of some blind loyalty to the character, but because there has been no evidence whatsoever on screen, put forward to date, that she is) then fine. As others have said, there will be a good reason for this I am sure, and her fans will have to deal with it. This still does not mean that Lucas is not a traitor for what he has done to date (stealing files, setting up another officer.) It just seems to me that there are a lot of people here that think that by making Ruth a traitor, means that Lucas isn't? I fail to understand that thinking at all.

As for Blake, he wasn't a "decent politician," as Harry called him, all the time. Going back to the Iran triggers crisis he had the team almost killed.

Ruth was proud that Lucas had figgered out that it wasn't Harry on the phone. Her reaction was nothing else but pride. As others have said, she doesn't hate Lucas and is more worried about him. She didn't go shouting and screaming to Harry at the end. She just told him, he was in trouble. Lets not forget that Ruth has been "in trouble" herself, passing information to Downing Street in series 2/3? Adam and Harry helped her here, before it got out of hand. Now she has gone to Harry for him to help Lucas. Again, she could have gone over Harry's head, like Ros did in 5.5, but she didn't. If Ruth really wanted to screw both Harry and Lucas over by now, she could have already done it. She also could have grassed Harry up over his "mistakes of judgement" in recent operations, if she wanted to get at hime, but she didn't.

molecatcher · (This post was last modified: 29-10-2010 10:29 AM by molecatcher.)

(28-10-2010 08:47 PM)A Cousin Wrote: I would agree that Danielle surviving that long after a hit to a vein in the neck is a bit implausible. Are there any doctors in the house who can tell me if it is possible survive a graze to the exterior jugular? It seems a small vein in comparison to the Interior Jugular which is on the other side of the neck.

I'm no doctor but from the way Danielle was made to run for cover for quite a distance thereby increasing her heart rate and pumping her blood faster then, before Lucas finally pulled her into his arms to die, she was left lying flat on the ground, the worst possible position to be in as the blood would flow freely (any bleed like that should be raised up) I'm not surprised she bled to death. When we saw Lucas shift his pressure on her neck the blood was pumping out. I still think it was obvious to him she was going to die and he just did his best to comfort her although the split personality did come into play with the call to the emergency services.

(29-10-2010 07:22 AM)agent68 Wrote:
(29-10-2010 01:27 AM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote: These are the reasons I began to suspect Ruth,

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I've taken out all your comments to save repeating it all but yes I totally agree with you. Especially as Spooks is known for its twists and turns.

Noooooo! Absolutely no reason to suspect her. She's just doing what she's always been brilliant at. We may as well suspect Malcolm. Perhaps that's why he's returned!!

BoHenley · 29-10-2010, 11:09 AM

Whoa! Been off-line a few days and my head's spinning after all these comments.

Apart from Lucas/Danielle/VaughanEtc storyline, one thing stood out: Harry's brush off to Ruth about Lucas (near the end) and his subsequent phone call to Lucas as Lucas is re-entering Malcolm's home. Concern? Maybe. But I wonder if Harry isn't setting up Lucas to chase this file up (spec only). Thoughts, anyone?

I thought Danielle was terrific, so great she saw through Lucas, and yes, she was doomed the moment she mentioned "Albany." That Lucas stopped/faked the emergency call, then released pressure on her neck to let her die, shows just how ruthless he's become. Great acting by RA and terrific writing (it's fiction, remember).

Can't wait for next week.

nothingisasitseems · (This post was last modified: 29-10-2010 11:17 AM by nothingisasitseems.)

(29-10-2010 01:27 AM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote: These are the reasons I began to suspect Ruth,
From watching the show,

All fingers are pointing toward Lucas. He took the Albany file for Vaughn, set up an innocent man. It's just too obvious.

Ruth just happened to be standing there when Lucas finished stealing the file.

When Lucas said the line "A traitor is a traitor," Ruth had a response. Not enough in itself but considering the writers are making Lucas look bad, it could be she suspected Lucas or worried that Lucas suspected her.

It would be the biggest shocker of all seasons.

From reading the series 9 rumors and speculation thread,

Series 9 Spoiler: show
Someone mentioned that Peter Firth gave an interview saying the traitor was the least suspected person, then corrected himself to say the second least suspected.

To me the least suspected would be Harry. That gave more weight to the Ruth as traitor scenario.

Maybe Firth sees Ruth as the least suspected and himself as the second least. Is the traitor Harry?

Lucas doesn't merit first or second least suspected as he's been mysterious and questioned since he entered the grid in series 7. He has always been under suspicion.

And again, I never thought Danielle was involved with Albany, only that Lucas would follow up before killing someone or letting them die.

I have been thinking pretty much along the same lines as yourself right from the start of this Season. Also, something about the scene way back in E1 when Ruth turned down Harry's proposal just wasn't right.

Series S9 Spoiler: show

BravoNine · 29-10-2010, 11:24 AM

(29-10-2010 11:09 AM)BoHenley Wrote: Apart from Lucas/Danielle/VaughanEtc storyline, one thing stood out: Harry's brush off to Ruth about Lucas (near the end) and his subsequent phone call to Lucas as Lucas is re-entering Malcolm's home. Concern? Maybe. But I wonder if Harry isn't setting up Lucas to chase this file up (spec only). Thoughts, anyone?

I have no idea anymore.. Vueltasss

..these people have all gone crazy and for all I know, we're gonna end this series with Harry saying to Lucas, "Lucas, I am your father" and Lucas freaking out "NOOOOOOOOOO"

Well....that would certainly be one way to end a series... Silba

(29-10-2010 11:09 AM)BoHenley Wrote: That Lucas stopped/faked the emergency call, then released pressure on her neck to let her die, shows just how ruthless he's become.

I seriously think Lucas is suffering from split-personality or multiple personality disorder...... Dodgy

John and Lucas are having issues with each other......

theeyeshaveit · 29-10-2010, 01:25 PM

This little fella certainly sums up where I am at the moment but it's not exactly a happy dance. Confused

Logsie · 29-10-2010, 01:29 PM

I think we are being misled by people left, right and centre here.

Lucas said something to Malcolm like "It's as simple as that, I just turn up here and ask you for it and you just hand it over". Malcolm has to come up with a response which will satisfy Lucas's suspicions so he sells him the "Harry's list" line and Lucas seems so swallow it. I don't believe there was such a list. Albany is obviously so sensitive that it has to be stored off-grid and Malcolm is its custodian. Ex-spooks are often trusted to sit on things (remember Connie's basement?) I believe Malcolm had standing orders that if anyone ever came asking for Albany it meant that someone or something was compromised and that hostile agencies knew of Albany's existence and were determined to get their hands on it. In that sense Lucas asking for the Albany file is a trigger word to Malcolm to get the hell out and take the Albany secret with him.

As for Lucas, I am wondering if whatever John was involved in back in '95 in Dakar was a fully deniable black op and that John was under orders to never reveal its existence, even to the point of changing his identity and becoming Lucas North. It is possible that the only other people who could know about Albany are from John's past and the very fact that Lucas has asked for it is an alarm bell that his ID is compromised and by extension, the black op, which may or may not be connected to Albany.

I realise I may just be clutching at straws trying to find a way for Lucas not to be entirely bad but I just can't get my head around the traitor idea. I accept that John must have done something very bad in his youth, but he has drawn a line under that and become a good person since. He has been fiercely loyal to his country and endured unimaginable horrors in its service. He has come through time and time again, going above and beyond the call of duty. I think Lucas has earned his reprieve already; he has paid for his crime. So what doesn't make sense is that he is now risking everything instead of confessing to Harry and letting him help him out of the mess. Therefore the only reason I can think of why he hasn't confided in Harry is that he is under orders not to divulge it to anyone - which would make him a bit of a hero.

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 29-10-2010 02:00 PM by JHyde.)

This conversation is veering more into speculation and less about episode discussion. Please try and keep it to episode 6.

**A Cousin** · (This post was last modified: 29-10-2010 02:46 PM by A Cousin.)

(29-10-2010 01:29 PM)Logsie Wrote: Lucas said something to Malcolm like "It's as simple as that, I just turn up here and ask you for it and you just hand it over". Malcolm has to come up with a response which will satisfy Lucas's suspicions so he sells him the "Harry's list" line and Lucas seems so swallow it. I don't believe there was such a list. Albany is obviously so sensitive that it has to be stored off-grid and Malcolm is its custodian. Ex-spooks are often trusted to sit on things (remember Connie's basement?) I believe Malcolm had standing orders that if anyone ever came asking for Albany it meant that someone or something was compromised and that hostile agencies knew of Albany's existence and were determined to get their hands on it. In that sense Lucas asking for the Albany file is a trigger word to Malcolm to get the hell out and take the Albany secret with him.

Agreed. I think Malcolm was suspicious almost from the first moment he opened the door to Lucas. The look on Malcolm's face as Lucas passes him entering the house is one of doubt and suspicion. How often has a current officer contacting a retired officer been just to drop by with sponge cake and a hello? As soon as Lucas mentions the Albany file, even without the single note of ominous music from the bass and kettle drums, Malcolm knows exactly what is going on. He knows what Albany is and he knows exactly what he has, or doesn't have. More power to Malcolm for deceiving the deceiver. More fool Lucas for being so single minded that he underestimates Malcolm.