Series 9 Episode 8 discussion

[Gazelle]

(08-11-2010 10:36 PM)Angie Wrote:  

(08-11-2010 10:18 PM)Gazelle Wrote:  I feel pretty emotionally drained now and I've only been watching...!

Glad Lucas relented and took his own life not Harry's, would have liked to have a closing scene to reunite Harry with the others, especially Ruth of course. On the plus side, they're both still alive and assuming NW's in the next series then I really hope the storywriters develop the Harry/Ruth relationship in a positive way. There's too much history between them to just let it dissipate away with a whimper, instead S10 needs to do them justice.

Here's also hoping for a bit more light relief in S10 - ok, there's going to be the usual terrorism plots but please can we have some less serious outtakes round the edges like in previous series? It's true Spooks has a great edge but it doesn't have to be all dark.

My ideal scenario for S10 - Harry survives the review, he and Ruth have a new found understanding, the team foils some other terrorist plot, and the 2 of them bow out together at the end of the series...

Absolutely!! What was the point in having Lucas tell Ruth to go for it with Harry if they are just going to shut down their relationship for good? Give them something to smile about - they've paid their dues over the years.
Maybe if he isn't her boss and is under suspension then they dont have to have a boss/junior relationship - shades of that great scene on the bus in Series 4.

Yeah, that could give them the freedom they need and let things (finally)develop. Just wish we didn't have to wait til next Sept to find out!

[Tea Lady]

I didn't really like Alec to be honest. A bit wooden for me, a bit slow sometimes. I don't think the Section really needs someone like that going forward. Harry only picked him for this op, because it suited him in his mission to save Ruth.

I agree with others, I don't think Lucas was "in love" with Maya, more in love with his past and that time when he was most happiest. He was trying to hold onto that, but it was no longer there. He just couldn't see it with all the lies he was telling himself.

What did Lucas say to Connie in 7.8 "What is lost, can never be found." For Lucas, I am afraid it was lost.

[elisabet]

(08-11-2010 10:40 PM)Logsie Wrote:  Well, having seen the previews on the BBC Spooks site earlier today, I had guessed that Lucas was going to jump. I'm so glad they didn't show him falling or splattered on the ground like Walker after SC pushed him off the balcony because that would have broken my heart.

Lucas/John really had nothing left to live for after Maya was killed. He'd lost her, lost MI5, lost himself and all he had to look forward to was imprisonment which would have pushed his already fragile sanity off the edge. So he took the only way out possible. I thought it was terribly sad that he went in silence, no scream on the way down. I like to think he closed his eyes. Harry once said to him "if you're lying to me you won't get so much as a funeral". It is all so reminiscent of Ruth's poem at Ros's funeral.

Thus let me live, unseen, unknown;
Thus unlamented let me dye;
Steal from the world, and not a stone
Tell where I lye.

It will be interesting to see how they treat Lucas's memory in season 10 as he was a rogue agent and bearing in mind that Harry won't be calling the shots any more. It could all have gone so differently. As soon as Harry realised Lucas was after Albany, why the hell didn't he tell him it was a failed project? He could have pulled Lucas back from the brink, possibly. It cut me to the bone when Harry asked Lucas what happened in Dakar and he replied that Vaughn gave him a chance to be something, to make a difference; Harry responded by saying "I wish you'd met me first" and Lucas said "So do I"

I thought I'd be a lot more upset than I am. Maybe it hasn't sunk in yet.

I think you're spot on. I am terribly sad though.

[mifiva]

who's going to replace Lucas in series 10?

[Logsie]

If there is one good thing to come out of the Lucas debacle, let it be that he convinced Ruth that she and Harry have paid their dues and deserve some happiness together. If Harry is forced to stand down as head of section D, possible facing dismissal from the service, maybe that will force them both to re-evaluate their relationship and what working for MI5 has cost them.

I understand why Harry didn't go straight back to the grid. He was in no fit state to deal with the team's issues. He needed time alone to grieve. His affection for Lucas North went very deep and he was knocked sideways by his betrayal, his lies and despite them, his death. Harry will miss Lucas. I think Beth will be affected badly too. In a short time she seems to have connected with him and was hero-worshipping him a bit, she really did believe in him.

[Bethles123]

Was it just me, or did Lucas have a wife when he first came? Elisbeth or something similar. She was Russian, I think? Or am I just making that up? Because from what I remember he was pretty in love with her too...I guess it's like others were saying above though - in love with Maya or with the past?

I did have Alec down as a Harry replacement - he's older and not pretty enough to be section chief.

"I wish you'd met me first," killed me too Lucas/John/RA was a good person. He was.

Are we sure he's dead? We saw no body. Mind you, RA's got a busy few years coming up - the Hobbit, Captain America and there's talk of another series of Strike Back...Hey ho.

One final question - what did Lucas mean when he said the only person he never wanted to find out the truth was Ruth? I would've said it was Harry's respect he wanted most...

[Tea Lady]

(08-11-2010 11:08 PM)Bethles123 Wrote:  One final question - what did Lucas mean when he said the only person he never wanted to find out the truth was Ruth? I would've said it was Harry's respect he wanted most...

I thought he just meant, that the only person intelligent enough to discover the truth was Ruth. That "doged brilliant bitch" as it were. I could have this wrong, but this is how I read Lucas' words.

[Rebecca-91]

All I can say is that I can't wait for the next series and I was soo shocked by Lucas' death! I wonder who will replace him? and I also really don't want Harry to get the sack
This series I think didn't disapoint

[BravoNine]

(08-11-2010 10:40 PM)Logsie Wrote:  Well, having seen the previews on the BBC Spooks site earlier today, I had guessed that Lucas was going to jump. I'm so glad they didn't show him falling or splattered on the ground like Walker after SC pushed him off the balcony because that would have broken my heart.

I too am glad, I think I would be inconsolable if I saw Lucas's broken body lying there on the ground. I would never stop crying.

(08-11-2010 10:40 PM)Logsie Wrote:  Lucas/John really had nothing left to live for after Maya was killed. He'd lost her, lost MI5, lost himself and all he had to look forward to was imprisonment which would have pushed his already fragile sanity off the edge. So he took the only way out possible. I thought it was terribly sad that he went in silence, no scream on the way down. I like to think he closed his eyes. Harry once said to him "if you're lying to me you won't get so much as a funeral". It is all so reminiscent of Ruth's poem at Ros's funeral.

I think Lucas was ready to die, just to end it all, end it for himself and end it for his team, I think he convinced himself that it was better this way. He suffered in silence and he left in silence, and the world around will continue to spin, the world will not care. No one will hear of his suffering and what torment he had went through. It is incredibly sad.

(08-11-2010 10:40 PM)Logsie Wrote:  It could all have gone so differently. As soon as Harry realised Lucas was after Albany, why the hell didn't he tell him it was a failed project? He could have pulled Lucas back from the brink, possibly. It cut me to the bone when Harry asked Lucas what happened in Dakar and he replied that Vaughn gave him a chance to be something, to make a difference; Harry responded by saying "I wish you'd met me first" and Lucas said "So do I"

I think a part of me will never forgive Harry for letting this continue when he had a chance to change things. He could have told Lucas to truth about Albany, things could have changed, Lucas could have lived. I don't think I will ever forgive him for that.

It really hurt me too when Harry and Lucas talked about Dakar and what happened to Lucas. You knew that both of them cared so much for each other, that neither wished that this would come, but circumstances have led them down this dark path, and they wish it could change. It's clear that Lucas loved his life at MI5, he found a family. It's clear that Harry cares very much about Lucas, he found a prodigy to raise and groom, and if they had met just a little bit earlier, they wouldn't come to this.

(08-11-2010 10:53 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  I didn't really like Alec to be honest. A bit wooden for me, a bit slow sometimes. I don't think the Section really needs someone like that going forward. Harry only picked him for this op, because it suited him in his mission to save Ruth.

I'm not too thrilled about Alec either, I was trying to resist the urge to smack him.

(08-11-2010 10:53 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  I agree with others, I don't think Lucas was "in love" with Maya, more in love with his past and that time when he was most happiest. He was trying to hold onto that, but it was no longer there. He just couldn't see it with all the lies he was telling himself.

What did Lucas say to Connie in 7.8 "What is lost, can never be found." For Lucas, I am afraid it was lost.

Poor poor Lucas, his ending was just tragic....

(08-11-2010 10:57 PM)Logsie Wrote:  I understand why Harry didn't go straight back to the grid. He was in no fit state to deal with the team's issues. He needed time alone to grieve. His affection for Lucas North went very deep and he was knocked sideways by his betrayal, his lies and despite them, his death. Harry will miss Lucas. I think Beth will be affected badly too. In a short time she seems to have connected with him and was hero-worshipping him a bit, she really did believe in him.

Harry will no doubt miss Lucas, this is his prodigy, the one whom he felt so much responsible for, that he wanted to protect, that he felt in some ways that he had let down. I think Harry in his heart knew Lucas's story was sad and tragic, he wanted to help, and his death is really cutting deep into his soul.

As for the others, poor Tariq, Dimitri, and Beth, they've lost their big brother, poor kids must be lost.

[Akira]

I can't wait for 2011!!!!! is all I am capable of saying now.