Series 9 Episode 8 discussion

[BravoNine]

(11-11-2010 05:00 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  You took the words right out of my mouth. What is wrong with kids these days!

I find him to be charming and very handsome, with very nice blue eyes.....oh okay, so I'm a sucker for blue eyes....

See for me, Dimitri is what I call "cute", kinda like a puppy, all baby-face and adorable.....Lucas is more manly and handsome....there's a difference.... And this Alec fellow is...well...he looks charming and very ruggedly handsome.....although I do think an attitude adjustment is in order....I may have to go through a series of hitting him on the head if he is to reappear next series.

(11-11-2010 05:00 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  I agree with those who complimented the writers on their courage. I will add that I think they concocted an amazing set up. But just like a basketball team that spends a lot of energy setting up a shot and then lobs the ball to the guy who's supposed to slam dunk it, ooooops! Pity.

Yeah I agree with this! The concept was very cool, but the execution in the end was...well...sort of went sideways...

(11-11-2010 05:00 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  I also agree with the one poster who said they did not want the return of Tom Quinn. I'll add that once any of then is gone, I don't really want them back. Move on. I love all the new characters they've added and with our main man gone (curses) they can now get some attention.

Tom Quinn could only return in my dreams...never in reality, and honestly I'd want him to stay away too, he was one of the lucky ones who had gotten out before this job sent him to his grave....he should stay that way.....

(11-11-2010 05:00 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  I can still see a way for them to right this season during season 10 but I'll leave it for another time. They never listen to us anyway.

I can think of a plausible storyline too! But as I have learned from this series, nothing I want is gonna happen.....

[Tea Lady]

(11-11-2010 04:20 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  But the reasons I think he is going to make it into S10 at least for a while is that they bothered to set up some back story for him and he and Beth clearly have history or at the very least an immediate connection.

I thought they were trying to make it look like Alec and Beth had known each other previously. I can't quite see that being in a romantic way though. Maybe he had something to do with her training, back in the day. Also, poor Tariq having to put up with Alec putting his feet on his desk.

[A Cousin]

(11-11-2010 05:43 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  I thought they were trying to make it look like Alec and Beth had known each other previously. I can't quite see that being in a romantic way though. Maybe he had something to do with her training, back in the day. Also, poor Tariq having to put up with Alec putting his feet on his desk.

Me either. I thought they may have known each other from the private sector as well. Time will tell.

I'll betcha Alec took Tariq's apple. Tariq sure gave Alec a piece of his mind, didn't he? That may be the most spit and vinegar we have seen from Tariq to date. I enjoyed that.

[Apicius]

Well, just read through all your posts trying to catch up. Only got to watch the episode on Tues and my internet has been down (boo hoo). However that delay has allowed me to process things more and step back a bit from the immediate emotions on 1st watch.

I'v spent sometime doing psychiatry and there were many elements of RA's character that were interesting. After watching episode 8 I don't feel as let down or frustrated as I had anticipated. I thought that it would take a lot to bring everything together and got carried away with everyone else in speculation. However I felt that they kept it remarkably simple.

When Harry is talking with the Home Secretary he talks about how John was a natural, bought himself time filling in the gaps and making the legend water tight. And that is what Lucas was - a legend. He went into character, so immersed in the lies that he convinced himself it was real. It soon became difficult to detach himself from the lies. I think that he probably did see it as a way to escape what he had become during his time in Dakar (the drug dealing, working for Vaughn and murdering many). Sometimes when things go wrong people escape into fantasy as a coping mechanism. The real Lucas North had been talking about spies and had probably shared this with John, further fuelling his imagination.

As for how he got through the 8 years in a Russian prison - not so sure. Again - if he'd been living the life as Lucas the MI5 agent for a while he was probably really convinced of this. People do try and bury things very deeply and believe the lie so much so that it becomes reality and the truth a "lie". When Vaughn appeared it reminded him of the past he had tried so hard to bury and forget. I think that he was genuinely mixed up as he battled through what was real. Him seeking solace in Maya was probably trying to return to a time when things were simpler rather than real love.

In some way I was reminded of the film Catch me if you can. He becomes so entangled in lies and is running away however also seems to have some desire to be caught and helped. What I mean is that instead of fleeing after giving Albany to the Chinese he returns "home" to Harry and the team. I agree, not in a particularly good way - he's seeking revenge, however he returns none the less. He doesn't want to go through with murdering Ruth, Harry or people with the bomb. He just wants some meaning and understanding into everything. He does demonstrate many signs of poor mental health.

People in real life are not evil/good in a black and white way. I felt that RA's character was deep and complex and I was more aggrieved by the lack of exploration of this in the earlier parts of this series and in the 2 preceding series. And it's not just RA's character that isn't explored and fleshed out enough, I feel that we hardly know any of the new recruits (Dimitri, Beth and Tariq) especially when compared to previous teams in earlier series. There has been so much focus on the operations and the Lucas/Vaughn/Albany/Maya story that the rest have been rather in the shadows. I hope that this will be rectified in series 10. I also can imagine having some recaps of previous operations, teams and a look back over time before series 1 as Harry is investigated. I just hope that it doesn't become one long goodbye to Harry and Spooks, with more recaps than new material.

There were things that frustrated me but overall I feel that it was a good episode and, although somewhat predictable, it's simplicity helped it. My reaction has surprised myself! I agree the acting has generally been of a very high standard.

Feel free to shoot me down - as I know many of you will!

---

P.S was very sad not to have Malcolm back!

[BoHenley]

That's a great insight, Apicius. Thanks.

[Naivety]

The scene on the roof in the dark wasn't the only one that they pinched from another episode.

This is a still from episode 2 when Harry is working late and Ruth phones him:

http://www.hiddenshallows.co.uk/peterfir...s9/b20.jpg

This is a still from episode 8 when Harry is digging into Lucas's past:

http://www.hiddenshallows.co.uk/peterfir...ks9/h4.jpg

It's the same bit of film. Me thinks Kudos was trying to save costs this year!

[Tea Lady]

(11-11-2010 08:03 PM)Naivety Wrote:  The scene on the roof in the dark wasn't the only one that they pinched from another episode.

This is a still from episode 2 when Harry is working late and Ruth phones him:

http://www.hiddenshallows.co.uk/peterfir...s9/b20.jpg

This is a still from episode 8 when Harry is digging into Lucas's past:

http://www.hiddenshallows.co.uk/peterfir...ks9/h4.jpg

It's the same bit of film. Me thinks Kudos was trying to save costs this year!

This is very odd. I've never noticed them do this in Spooks before. I can't believe they didn't shoot enough footage. Haven't we been told that frequently they have too much! I know I sound like a broken record here but they must have deleted part of this episode and found they needed a couple of more minutes footage, but couldn't use the footage they had shot. To have two scenes in one episode means something wasnt right surely with the final version they had. I can't think of any other reason they would do this as they know it is bound to be noticed and disappoint fans. I really hope this issue is raised in pre-season interviews for S10.

[Kirayuki]

(11-11-2010 08:03 PM)Naivety Wrote:  The scene on the roof in the dark wasn't the only one that they pinched from another episode.

This is a still from episode 2 when Harry is working late and Ruth phones him:

http://www.hiddenshallows.co.uk/peterfir...s9/b20.jpg

This is a still from episode 8 when Harry is digging into Lucas's past:

http://www.hiddenshallows.co.uk/peterfir...ks9/h4.jpg

It's the same bit of film. Me thinks Kudos was trying to save costs this year!

So it is. Well found.
Well at least this one wasn't as obvious.
(And at least they aren't all as obvious as in Ashes to Ashes. That was appaling).

I thought that it was strange that they only difference we could previously notice we thought was to do with the costs is the costumes in S8 being all the same all the time. It's starting to show a boit more now.
Come on Spooks, pull the plug on the cost on the next (possibly last series) and give us something we find difficult to fault. Do this and we'll all love you forever (more than we do already if possible)

[Tea Lady]

(11-11-2010 11:01 PM)Kirayuki Wrote:  So it is. Well found.
Well at least this one wasn't as obvious.
(And at least they aren't all as obvious as in Ashes to Ashes. That was appaling).

I never noticed in Ashes to Ashes but then again I never watched it as closely as I do Spooks. Was this issue ever raised with Kudos for Ashes then? Was it thought to be just down to budget?

Surely though, if that end scene in 9.8 was an add-on as we think it may have been, and was about cost, then how come they dragged SRB back to shoot an extra scene? Just speculation on my part, but I would think it more likely that the HS part was shot as part of normal filming and was going to be in the final episode anyway. I think it was perhaps more likely that the Harry part of that scene was changed. I mean where Harry was location wise, when he took that call i.e. lying in a hospital bed, eating in a restaurant with Ruth. As I say pure spec on my part.

[Quill]

(11-11-2010 12:12 PM)tyme4t Wrote:  

(11-11-2010 06:15 AM)JHyde Wrote:  Is it just me or does Vincent Regan look like Gerard Butler?

It's just you....LOL!

But he was on "300" too. Maybe osmosis can explain the likeness.