Series 9 Episode 8 discussion

[HellsBells]

(13-12-2010 09:49 PM)conniesachs Wrote:  I thought my fantasy of Lucas being being aided and abetted by MI6 to fake his death so he could join them was a private one but it's nice to know others have been thinking along the same lines.
Like HellsBells I also wondered (in one of my many theories) if he was involved with MI6 back in 1995 in Dakar, but my take on it was that he was an MI6 agent, sent to Dakar to investigate Vaughan Edwards and find out what he was up to; gun-running/drug-trafficking/spying, using the cover of John Bateman, a failed drug runner short of money who works at the casino he frequents. The plan works and John is recruited by Vaughan, but before he can discover what he is up to disaster strikes when the briefcase John has left in the British Embassy blows up. In the circumstances bringing back into MI6 isn't a good idea but the security services don't want to lose what had been up to then a good operative so he joins MI5 as Lucas North, with only Harry knowing he is really seconded from 6.
So his real name is neither John Bateman or Lucas North.
Oh and I love HellsBells idea that Albany contained some sort of computer virus.

Really good idea conninesachs. He isn't John or Lucas, that could be very confusing
But like most of these possibilities, mine included, don't seem to fit with the final scene with Harry on the rooftop. I think prior to that scene anything was possible, including Lucas just disappearing with the Chinese, as the team thought initially. But that scene really seemed to confirm that Lucas was, as he said "bad before he went in". That last scene seemed to seal Lucas's fate, the writers finally destroying Lucas's character, although I guess he didn't kill Harry.
But I'm still desperately hoping for some sort of redemption for Lucas in series 10

[BoHenley]

I'd say a fair majority of us are desperately hoping for some sort of redemption for Lucas in S10...

[Byatil]

I'm beginning to wonder if we should just start a "Lucas Speculation" thread in the S10 discussion xD

[Annie]

Yes, we should. Then we could keep the other threads Lucas-free, and those who never liked him don't need to read that one.

[Byatil]

I'll go ahead and make one then, I know how annoyed some people must be getting with this constant Lucas analysis

[conniesachs]

I know probably most people out there have given up on series 9 but I decided to give episode 8 another look. Thought I would sound out the junior Sachs' whilst they were home from university but they tell me its only a tv programme and I'm taking this far too seriously ! So if there is still anyone out there perhaps I sound you out instead.

---

Sorry, hit wrong button and posted before I'd finished! I did say when I joined that I was a technophobe. Anyway here are the questions puzzling me about ep 8:

Why did Harry send Ruth and Tariq out into the field when Lucas said he wanted to turn himself in? I'm sure in previous episodes they've managed to do this from the grid, instead Harry and Alex stay in the safety of the grid and Ruth and Tariq are exposed to danger.

How did Lucas manage to find two abandoned buildings, get drugs for Ruth and new clothes for Harry, organise at least 3 vehicles, all whilst booking tickets for all over the world? The last getaway vehicle in the middle of the countryside would have needed at least two vehicles and drivers, unless Lucas caught a bus/hitched/or got his fold-up bike out of the boot to enable him to get back to central London. He had to have had help, but who? The chinese?

Why did Harry seem so keen to phone the Home Sec to tell him he'd given Lucas Albany? When Lucas and Maya left the hotel Alex phones Harry and says "It's done". Presumably getting Maya to agree to take the tracking device. Harry immediately phones the Home Sec, tells him that Lucas has Albany and he gave it to him. Doesn't mention the tracker and that they hope to use this get Albany back before it is passed to the chinese, but casts the worst possible light on the situation.

On the rooftop what did Harry mean when he said to Lucas "If you knew what you were doing, why did you do it?" It can't be planting the bomb in Dakar because Harry shouldn't know this. All he knows is the story Lucas told him of John Bateman unwittingly planting the briefcase and Vaughan died before he could give his version of what happened.

Who was Vaughan Edwards? Harry tells the Home Sec he was some sort of Mr Fixit, but that doesn't fit with level A security clearance. In ep 7 when Harry and Lucas are going to meet Harry's source Harry describes him as "old school" seeming to suggest maybe he was formerly involved with one of the security services, but adds something to the effect that you shouldn't trust him completely, maybe implying he was no longer involved with the security services. Therefore Lucas looking Vaughan's name up (ep 2?) could suggest Vaughan was formerly a member of the security services when he was in Dakar and Lucas wants to know whether he is still with them or not before deciding how to act.

Any ideas? I'm never sure with these writers whether anomalies are clues that things aren't quite what they seem, or just bad writing.

[Byatil]

Every point you raise is a completely valid one, conniesachs, but I'm afraid I have no idea as to any of the answers either! I'll make sure to rewatch 9.8 in the next few days so I can attempt to formulate an explanation for the writing, but as far as I can see these are all just plot-holes which were never properly closed

(04-01-2011 07:36 PM)conniesachs Wrote:  Why did Harry seem so keen to phone the Home Sec to tell him he'd given Lucas Albany? When Lucas and Maya left the hotel Alex phones Harry and says "It's done". Presumably getting Maya to agree to take the tracking device. Harry immediately phones the Home Sec, tells him that Lucas has Albany and he gave it to him. Doesn't mention the tracker and that they hope to use this get Albany back before it is passed to the chinese, but casts the worst possible light on the situation.

I'm just going to pick up on this point, because it does indeed seem very out of character for Harry to go straight to the Home Sec? He usually seems to hold information back where it concerns his field officers until it is crucial that he involves higher powers - and when he went to the Home Sec he apparently still had some control over Lucas and Albany. So does seem very strange that he would incriminate himself. Unless he was working under the assumption that his plan would fail, and that it might look better in court if he were to have told the Home Sec of his plans rather than running a Black Op

[BravoNine]

(05-01-2011 02:40 AM)Byatil Wrote:  

(04-01-2011 07:36 PM)conniesachs Wrote:  Why did Harry seem so keen to phone the Home Sec to tell him he'd given Lucas Albany? When Lucas and Maya left the hotel Alex phones Harry and says "It's done". Presumably getting Maya to agree to take the tracking device. Harry immediately phones the Home Sec, tells him that Lucas has Albany and he gave it to him. Doesn't mention the tracker and that they hope to use this get Albany back before it is passed to the chinese, but casts the worst possible light on the situation.

I'm just going to pick up on this point, because it does indeed seem very out of character for Harry to go straight to the Home Sec? He usually seems to hold information back where it concerns his field officers until it is crucial that he involves higher powers - and when he went to the Home Sec he apparently still had some control over Lucas and Albany. So does seem very strange that he would incriminate himself. Unless he was working under the assumption that his plan would fail, and that it might look better in court if he were to have told the Home Sec of his plans rather than running a Black Op

This issue with Harry and Home Sec reminds me of the same thought and issue I had with Nicholas Blake/Nightingale thing!

So Harry goes to purposely incriminate himself so early in the game, why?

It's like why did Blake go to Harry about the secret meeting and lead him onto the trail of Nightingale? I mean, if he had just not told Harry about anything, Section D wouldn't have known what was going on, it would have made it that much more difficult to find stuff out. I mean, it was basically like Blake just helped MI5 stop Nightingale's plan and then got himself killed! It was rather stupid this whole sudden "I'm a traitor" stuff!

And the same with Harry, sure I'm not his biggest fan, but the man's not an idiot. Giving yourself no corner to back out of seems like a pretty dumb move to me. And Harry is not dumb in any way.

[BoHenley]

It'd make more sense if Series 9 never happened.

[WhiteSwan]

[quote='BoHenley' pid='40548' dateline='1294216216']
It'd make more sense if Series 9 never happened.


That's what I think. The only remotely plausible way to get out of this mess would be pretending it was all just a nightmare. This would work better than any other explanation and Lucas could come back!