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BravoNine · 27-03-2011, 07:25 AM

(27-03-2011 07:11 AM)Nixie Wrote: Well, I've just spent the past few hours reading about S9 here and over on Skully's blog. Wow, lots to think about. Skully has a really interesting take on the plausibility of the Lucas/John storyline that has made me pause and think. Still digesting the series as a whole and individually. Makes me think: can we ever really know another person? Do we ever really know ourselves? How much do we, as audience, superimpose our own desires onto the characters we watch?

I don't think the psychology and emotionality of the Lucas/John storyline is implausible, in fact, I actually think it is quite fascinating and it is quite possible to happen in real life. We can never truly know the people around us, there will always be sides that we don't see coming.

But I think what people have a hard time accepting is the logic behind this storyline that was never properly explained, instead it was quickly glossed over in the hopes that people will just accept it at face value. THAT is where my issues in this storyline comes from.

There were just too many logical inconsistencies that overshadowed the emotional side of the story, and that's where the writers' storytelling failed.

BoHenley · 02-04-2011, 10:39 PM

Having just watched 9.1 aired on Australian TV (and even after watching the DVDs), I now know what is missing from Series 9: Ros's great one-liners. Sure, Harry has some gems (as he should), but I miss the acidic and barbed wit of Ros.

xRuthx · 02-04-2011, 10:53 PM

^I did find that a little too. I even found myself missing Tessa's wit at one point. Both Ruth and Harry had some good lines but it was tough to see Ros go Sad

BravoNine · 03-04-2011, 11:24 AM

(02-04-2011 10:39 PM)BoHenley Wrote: Having just watched 9.1 aired on Australian TV (and even after watching the DVDs), I now know what is missing from Series 9: Ros's great one-liners. Sure, Harry has some gems (as he should), but I miss the acidic and barbed wit of Ros.

I miss Ros and Lucas trying to "small-talk" each other!! I just miss Ros in general!! If she was here, Lucas wouldn't have gone coo-coo!!!!!!!!

Yeah, Series 9 was missing Ros and her awesomeness! Undecided

BAUER24 · 03-04-2011, 07:07 PM

spoiler alert

Season 9 definately missed Ros. Beth was useless on the fact that she was a wimp in the later episodes when taken hostage.

BravoNine · 03-04-2011, 07:11 PM

(03-04-2011 07:07 PM)BAUER24 Wrote: spoiler alert

Season 9 definately missed Ros. Beth was useless on the fact that she was a wimp in the later episodes when taken hostage.

Well, to be honest, Beth was a character that's stuck between a rock and a hard place, if she was all Ros-like and tough and smart-ass, people would say she's just another Ros replacement, and if she wasn't like Ros and was vulnerable and have her own set of issues, they just call her a Ros-wannabe. So she wasn't gonna be fairly treated by the fans either way.

Beth isn't Ros, and I don't see why she should be like Ros, Beth is her own person and her own character, and if she was afraid at one point, that just makes her human, it doesn't make her a wimp. Anyways, she fought through in the end so she's not useless. Not everyone can be a superman and we shouldn't expect every character to have some magical person who is invincible and knows everything.

Nixie · 05-04-2011, 12:25 AM

(27-03-2011 07:25 AM)BravoNine Wrote: I don't think the psychology and emotionality of the Lucas/John storyline is implausible, in fact, I actually think it is quite fascinating and it is quite possible to happen in real life. We can never truly know the people around us, there will always be sides that we don't see coming.

But I think what people have a hard time accepting is the logic behind this storyline that was never properly explained, instead it was quickly glossed over in the hopes that people will just accept it at face value. THAT is where my issues in this storyline comes from.

There were just too many logical inconsistencies that overshadowed the emotional side of the story, and that's where the writers' storytelling failed.

I agree, BravoNine. It wasn't what happened that I found implausible, but the reasons why that we (the audience) were given for it happening. It is, after all, a TV show and generally credits it's audience with intelligence and education. As an audience, I think we expect stories and characters that may take unexpected twists and turns and be at times shocking, but still fundamentally hold together as stories and characters. That looking back on an episode, or a season or the series as a whole, we can see threads weaving through, that may come together or drift apart, but are logically connected (even if at times fantastical, rather than realistic). It is a TV series and not real life. Questions that are left hanging, backgrounds that are unknown in real life, we expect to be privy to in a TV series. So, we want to understand - not necessarily agree with, nor approve/disapprove, nor like/dislike - but understand why a character behaves as they do, particularly when that character diverges from who we thought they were. Theoretically, that can make a character more interesting - if it is handled well. And I feel that was the downfall of the Lucas/John storyline - it was not handled/written well enough to convince the audience of its plausiblity within the Spooks world. This is different to the storyline's plausibility or otherwise in the real world.

pennyfeather · (This post was last modified: 01-08-2011 05:23 AM by pennyfeather.)

I'm surprised at the amount of people who seem to be disappointed with Lucas' death and even more so by those who seem to think he may be still alive. I loved RA in North and South and it was him that made me start start watching Spooks as I saw the front cover of one of the DVDs (then I realized he wasn't even in it till S7.)
AT the end of the day I think S9 was one of the least Spookish (weird word I know) of the lot. I think its because of all the newbies and young newbies at that. It made me think of NCIS and when you've lived with a show taht relies on the years and years of wisdom and experience of people like Malcom, Adam, Hermionie (soz forgotten her character name) its a bit deflating to see these perky youths acting opposite such legends as Harry and Ruth.

I didn't think the characterization of Harry and Ruth was particularly convincing either - no matter how upset he is over Ruth's refusal to his marriage proposal Harry has never been so self pitying and self questioning.
Peter Firth did make a comment in an interview about Harry's growing disillusionment with the spy service and this, I suppose can account for some of it. Idk though; there was still something instinctively false about the way the writers dealt with his character this season
They even went as far as to have him deliver one of the most cliche lines in cinema existence: 'What have I done?'
Sorry, but this is NOT the Harry we have seen in previous seasons.

Now I am a massive fan of Harry and Ruth. I have read in other posts that people loved the little subtle moments (some I hear created exclusively by the two actors before the writers even caught on) i.e Ruth's kindness, naivety and with that Harry's resulting gentle teasing.

This season their contention seemed a tad too forced. It was not until the final episode that I felt things were beginning to right themselves (and I have an inkling that was only because I was squealing at the idea of Harry saving Ruth and there being a passionate reunion).

I read somewhere that a fellow poster thought that Ruth's crying at the end of Episode 8 might have been either for Lucas or Harry. I cannot believe that. She locked eyes with Harry before he left, acknowledged that it was his turn to die and then was fighting back tears as she carried out his orders. For me that crying scene was all about Harry and her love for him.

My biggest disappointment was the fact that the episode ended on a cliffhanger that was 48hours later. WHY!!!!???? Where are the scenes of relief from Section D when they realize that Harry is alive? and more importantly the reunion between Ruth and Harry after she hears he's safe and well. What an intense moment that would've been! So much can happen in 48hrs... My biggest fear is that they will open S10 with Harry and Ruth in bed (like with Ross and Adam in S6) or with a suggestion that they have mended their ways and are now together.

Anyway those are my thoughts, sorry of I came on a bit strong heh... I watched the final ep of season 9 this morning and am still reeling from it lol...

**Silktie** · 01-08-2011, 05:59 AM

Nice first post! Interesting thoughts, particularly on where they took Harry. I don't agree though, lol. But that is a discussion for the Harry Pearce thread here: http://www.spooksforum.co.uk/thread-1474-page-16.html
So why don't you head over there and give your views?

What did you think of the threat of the week stories in general?

pennyfeather · 01-08-2011, 08:01 AM

LOL yeah I'll probably find I don't agree with them either after I calm down a little. As I say still recovering from watching the final episode.
Yeah I think the stories in general were quite strong. It's probably just the sudden change in characters (ie deaths and replacements) which made me a little over critical.
I can't wait to watch the 7th episode with audio commentary though. Mostly coz it includes Nicola Walker!