[spoilers] Sir Harry Pearce - Return of the Jedi (#3)

[beatrice4ruth]

(20-07-2011 06:08 AM)Silktie Wrote:  A few thoughts based on the season 10 promo doing the rounds:

Series 10 promo Spoiler: show

I kind of hope that when Harry says that line we can hear in the promo "I don't know who I can trust anymore, and that includes myself" that it is linked to the events of season 9, rather than the secret from his past that will come out.

They have established the character of Harry in season 9 as having reached the stage where he is really feeling the weight of everything that's happened, so I don't want them to gloss over the events in season 9 in terms of his reaction to it. Will he feel guilt over what happened - both Lucas' death and the giving away of the state secret? I think he should, if they want to be consistent with the character development.

I hope that you are right. Spooks glossed over the events of 8.1 in the whole S8. It was only in S9 that they decided to deal with the guilt of Ruth over the death of George. I do not think that Harry should feel guilty about Lucas’s death. After all, Lucas betrayed him and was ready to kill Ruth. The state secret was an empty one, otherwise Harry would never have given away Albany.

Series S10 Spoiler: show

Perhaps we were meant to think that Harry’s words were related to a possible betrayal in his past. Harry’s enemies might have framed him. They wanted him to believe that that he gave away a Cold War secret, even though it was not true. After 30 years, memories get blurred and that is why he is no longer sure of himself.

[loladom]

(20-07-2011 10:36 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  

(20-07-2011 06:08 AM)Silktie Wrote:  A few thoughts based on the season 10 promo doing the rounds:

Series 10 promo Spoiler: show

I kind of hope that when Harry says that line we can hear in the promo "I don't know who I can trust anymore, and that includes myself" that it is linked to the events of season 9, rather than the secret from his past that will come out.

They have established the character of Harry in season 9 as having reached the stage where he is really feeling the weight of everything that's happened, so I don't want them to gloss over the events in season 9 in terms of his reaction to it. Will he feel guilt over what happened - both Lucas' death and the giving away of the state secret? I think he should, if they want to be consistent with the character development.

I hope that you are right. Spooks glossed over the events of 8.1 in the whole S8. It was only in S9 that they decided to deal with the guilt of Ruth over the death of George. I do not think that Harry should feel guilty about Lucas’s death. After all, Lucas betrayed him and was ready to kill Ruth. The state secret was an empty one, otherwise Harry would never have given away Albany.

Series S10 Spoiler: show

Perhaps we were meant to think that Harry’s words were related to a possible betrayal in his past. Harry’s enemies might have framed him. They wanted him to believe that that he gave away a Cold War secret, even though it was not true. After 30 years, memories get blurred and that is why he is no longer sure of himself.

Yes, I've been thinking along those lines. I never really got why Vaughn was shown as knowing Harry, nor why he suddenly wanted to pass ALbany to the Chinese. And why did they link Harry to Dhakar and the bombings? What Lucus/Vaughn did would have stood alone, the Harry link wasn't necessary. Could it be that:

Series 10 Spoiler: show

The FSB learned that Albany was fake and wanted that exposing, shafting the Chinese in the process but also getting revenge on Harry by setting him up to give it away? There still has to be more milage with Lucas/the Russians/the puppet masters of the bombings. Perhaps the puppet masters are /were British and significant people to HArry which is why he doesn't know who to trust.

And why, oh why is HArry telling Ruth he doesn't know who to trust anymore? Surely he isn't including her? Has she let him down?

I think the trailer is from the first or second episodes though, not sure the others would be ready yet?

[beatrice4ruth]

Series series 10 Spoiler: show

If the trailer is from the first or second episodes, I cannot imagine what Ruth did for Harry not to trust her. He might be disappointed that she assumed that he would betray the country by giving away Albany. It seems to me that if Harry did not trust Ruth, he would tell her directly "I don't know I can trust you anymore" and not "I don't know who I can trust anymore". Both Harry and Ruth speak in a coded language when they struggle with their feelings towards each other.

[Silktie]

(20-07-2011 01:34 PM)loladom Wrote:  Yes, I've been thinking along those lines. I never really got why Vaughn was shown as knowing Harry, nor why he suddenly wanted to pass ALbany to the Chinese. And why did they link Harry to Dhakar and the bombings? What Lucus/Vaughn did would have stood alone, the Harry link wasn't necessary. Could it be that:

Series 10 Spoiler: show

The FSB learned that Albany was fake and wanted that exposing, shafting the Chinese in the process but also getting revenge on Harry by setting him up to give it away? There still has to be more milage with Lucas/the Russians/the puppet masters of the bombings. Perhaps the puppet masters are /were British and significant people to HArry which is why he doesn't know who to trust.

And why, oh why is HArry telling Ruth he doesn't know who to trust anymore? Surely he isn't including her? Has she let him down?

I think the trailer is from the first or second episodes though, not sure the others would be ready yet?

I don't find the linking of Harry to Dakar and the bombing a problem. It was the British Embassy that was bombed, and the embassies are considered British territory. As such the security of the embassies will fall under MI5, just as the security of the country proper is their responsibility.

That said, I don't expect to see any other fall-out from the season 9 storyline apart from the emotional impact on the characters and the Inquiry.

And the fact that Harry has nothing to feel guilty about re Lucas, does not mean that he won't. I think it would be human in such circumstances to wonder whether you should have noticed something was wrong with the guy earlier. Or even to feel that you should have noticed when he first started working for you that he's not who he says he is. But more than anything else, I can see the events of season 9 making Harry doubt his own judgement of the people around him, hence that line in the trailer.

But yeah, I agree it's more probable that it will be linked to the season 10 storyline, whatever it may be.

[beatrice4ruth]

One line. So many suggestions. So exciting.

Series series 10 Spoiler: show

I wish that the trailer is for episode 1. Whatever Harry says to Ruth in the car, we know that they will meet again on the bench and on the beach. Episode 1 seems pretty depressing and I am still hoping, against all hope, for some positive long-term outcome for Harry and Ruth.

Because Harry might get trapped in his Cold War past, I am also looking forward to Ruth's research in the latest Middle-East riots. Sir Harry Pearce (I am trying to stay in the right thread) will use once again her language skills in Arabic. I have often wondered whether Ruth had deepened her contact with the Arab world while she was in Cyprus. That might be an interesting twist.

[beatrice4ruth]

I have wondered why, over the years, Harry had given a second chance to Tom, even to Ruth indirectly through Tom (2.4), to Ros and to Lucas.

Series series 10 Spoiler: show

It is possible that, at the beginning of his career, Harry was given a second chance by a supervisor (please not Juliet), who discovered that Harry had a liaison with a Russian asset/spy. Harry had learnt the hard way that spies could be vulnerable. He wanted to give his subordinates the same second chance he was granted so that they too could go on protecting the realm.

[DogSoSmall]

I think that's more than possible. In fact almost certain. (He also gave Beth a second chance).

[loladom]

(27-07-2011 05:55 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  I have wondered why, over the years, Harry had given a second chance to Tom, even to Ruth indirectly through Tom (2.4), to Ros and to Lucas.

Series series 10 Spoiler: show

It is possible that, at the beginning of his career, Harry was given a second chance by a supervisor (please not Juliet), who discovered that Harry had a liaison with a Russian asset/spy. Harry had learnt the hard way that spies could be vulnerable. He wanted to give his subordinates the same second chance he was granted so that they too could go on protecting the realm.

Good theory that.

[pennyfeather]

Series 10 Spoiler: show

The 'I don't know who I can trust anymore' quote I would agree is more of a general statement to do with the events playing out in season 10 rather than one directed at Ruth; his way of saying I need your help. I think he must feel very vulnerable after the events of S9. There are so many people who have betrayed him, who he trusted and who ultimately have let him down. I see that line as almost a warning to Ruth about his current state of mind. He's been the boss for so many years and I can only remember one time in the entire series when he actually said 'okay guys I have no answers.'

Its interesting that just before Lucas dies he said 'I am nothing' which immediately made me think of a scene from King Lear (Soz had to get that in somewhere seeing as I'm ignoring my Lear essay in favour of reading Spooks) Edgar after his brother betrays him says 'I nothing am' and at the end of the Serenity (Joss Whedon whooo!) the villain says in reference to himself: 'there's nothing left to see'. Both are comments issued moments when their faith in anything or anyone has more or less vanished. I think Harry (tho to a lesser extent) is going through a similar period of 'I don't know what the hell to think or feel anymore' - Except of course in regards to Ruth. ^_^ Coz she's his shining light...*GLORIA!!*

[beatrice4ruth]

Pennyfeather wrote:
"I read somewhere that a fellow poster thought that Ruth's crying at the end of Episode 8 might have been either for Lucas or Harry. I cannot believe that. She locked eyes with Harry before he left, acknowledged that it was his turn to die and then was fighting back tears as she carried out his orders. For me that crying scene was all about Harry and her love for him."

I agree with you that, when Ruth locked eyes with Harry before he left and when she cried at the end, she showed her love for him. I never understood why some fans reproached Ruth the words "It's my turn" she said to Harry when she seemed to blame Harry for her rescue. Harry knew that Ruth believed it was her turn to die for the country. That's why, when he left the Grid, he told her "It's my turn". In 8.8 Ruth could not stop Harry from going to the hotel where Ros and the bomb were located. How was she going to stop him this time when he decided to meet with Lucas?

Harry knows Ruth better than anybody else and vice-versa. They share the same values and fight for the same causes. That is why their love story is so compelling. Let's us hope that in S10 Harry's secret will not destroy their love, but strenghten it.

I love the moral dilemna that Harry faced in S9. He was questioning himself after a long career. In fact, Harry is getting more and more interesting throughout the series.