Poll: Will Harry survive the show?

**A Cousin** · (This post was last modified: 23-09-2011 12:52 PM by A Cousin.)

Upon rewatch #206 Wink

, I was struck with the adoration in Elena's face when she looks at Harry. She is reminding me a bit of a "Fem Fatale?" IMO, her expression is not being returned. His face is one of someone whose is facing a ghost from their past. I don't think he trusts her.

I am looking forward to more interaction between these two actors.

**Silktie** · 24-09-2011, 08:55 AM

(23-09-2011 12:51 PM)A Cousin Wrote: Upon rewatch #206 , I was struck with the adoration in Elena's face when she looks at Harry. She is reminding me a bit of a "Fem Fatale?" IMO, her expression is not being returned. His face is one of someone whose is facing a ghost from their past. I don't think he trusts her.

I am looking forward to more interaction between these two actors.

I'm not sure about the trust thing. I saw nothing from Harry that indicates that he doesn't trust Elena. I think there was a lot of regret and guilt in the way he looked at her. But I don't think it is linked to their personal relationship. I think it has to do with the danger he's put her in, back when they had the affair and now in the present. As always, with Harry, you can't fully divorce the man from his job. (We're back to his 'tragic flaw - his moral sense and his sense of duty.) When he turned Elena into his asset, he put her in immense danger. He burned her in an effort to save her and his son from the facing the effects of what he'd turned her into, but now it is all back and she, and therefore his son, is back to being in immense danger. We're back to the Harry who said in season 9 that he didn't want to go to any more funerals, and now he's facing the very real prospect that it will hit very close to home this time.

Harry can't afford not to trust Elena, because that would be tantamount to admitting he's not as good an intelligence officer as he would like to think he is, and that Elena had played him for a sucker all those years ago. This where Ruth comes in this season, I think. She will probably need to be the one who takes a more objective look at Elena and what she might be up to.

beatrice4ruth · (This post was last modified: 24-09-2011 09:04 PM by beatrice4ruth.)

It was at her own free will that Elena decided to spy for the Allies, even if she did it out of love. Back then I could not imagine Harry threatening a female asset to spy for him. He was and is too honorable for that.

Nobody forced Elena to spy for the Allies, unless she did on the orders of her own country. What I still do not understand is why Elena spied for Harry, if Ilya adored her and the Soviets were spying on each other.

I really like your evaluation of the situation between Harry and Elena. I know that my opinion is not shared by most of the fans, but I still think that Harry was fooled by Elena all these years ago. You are right that Ruth will the one to view objectively the past and the present and make the right decisions for Harry. She will have to stay on the Grid. Without her, Harry will face grave professional and personal danger.

**A Cousin** · 24-09-2011, 08:52 PM

(24-09-2011 08:55 AM)Silktie Wrote:
(23-09-2011 12:51 PM)A Cousin Wrote: Upon rewatch #206 , I was struck with the adoration in Elena's face when she looks at Harry. She is reminding me a bit of a "Fem Fatale?" IMO, her expression is not being returned. His face is one of someone whose is facing a ghost from their past. I don't think he trusts her.

I'm not sure about the trust thing. I saw nothing from Harry that indicates that he doesn't trust Elena. I think there was a lot of regret and guilt in the way he looked at her. But I don't think it is linked to their personal relationship. I think it has to do with the danger he's put her in, back when they had the affair and now in the present. As always, with Harry, you can't fully divorce the man from his job. (We're back to his 'tragic flaw - his moral sense and his sense of duty.) When he turned Elena into his asset, he put her in immense danger. He burned her in an effort to save her and his son from the facing the effects of what he'd turned her into, but now it is all back and she, and therefore his son, is back to being in immense danger. We're back to the Harry who said in season 9 that he didn't want to go to any more funerals, and now he's facing the very real prospect that it will hit very close to home this time.

Harry can't afford not to trust Elena, because that would be tantamount to admitting he's not as good an intelligence officer as he would like to think he is, and that Elena had played him for a sucker all those years ago. This where Ruth comes in this season, I think. She will probably need to be the one who takes a more objective look at Elena and what she might be up to.

OK - I can buy that. I very much sensed his own regret and guilt to be the pervading emotion but I also sensed something else. He is very guarded with her somehow. I suppose it makes sense. He thought he had protected them only to find out that she had been active for the last 30 years, as Sasha says.

So Elena was/is an innocent? Seems a bit of a waste of an actor with the skill and experience of Alice Krige? And what's in it for Elena?

And why do I keep flashing back to the Adam/Anna/Bhakshi plot of S6?

beatrice4ruth · 24-09-2011, 10:12 PM

Great observation about what Sasha said to Harry. Sasha annoys me so much that I have watched only once his confrontation with Harry and missed this spoiler. How does Sasha know that his mother has been active for the last 30 years? Only a British or an American intelligence should have known about Elena's spying. It means that the Russians have known about Elena's and Harry's affair all along. It also makes Sasha a pretty bad SFB officer if he blurts out such a secret. He does not possess the self-control of Harry.

**A Cousin** · 25-09-2011, 02:54 AM

(24-09-2011 10:12 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote: Great observation about what Sasha said to Harry. Sasha annoys me so much that I have watched only once his confrontation with Harry and missed this spoiler. How does Sasha know that his mother has been active for the last 30 years? Only a British or an American intelligence should have known about Elena's spying. It means that the Russians have known about Elena's and Harry's affair all along. It also makes Sasha a pretty bad SFB officer if he blurts out such a secret. He does not possess the self-control of Harry.

I liked that scene if only for Harry's cahones in walking right up to Sasha with the gun in his face. I thought, "Don't shoot him now. You'll waste the good scotch!" A gal's gotta have priorities.... Tongue

As for Sasha, I think he found some letter? I am not sure that Elena has actually been active for the last 30 years or if that is just what Sasha thinks. At the very least, even if she was technically inactive she could have been reactivated at any time. Which begs another question, if she has been active for the last 30 years and not just recently, does Harry know that? When exactly did Harry's impostor start to contact her? Maybe this is mentioned and I missed it?

*Geez!* It's only the first episode and I am already tying myself up in plot-knots! Time for a re-watch. Cool

**Silktie** · 25-09-2011, 07:24 AM

Haha, well I've only seen it the once so may be totally off base with all my opinions. But it was my impression that Sasha made the deduction that his mother had been active all this time, based purely on the fact that he found the request for more information Harry's imposter sent her. I don't think that means she was actually active, but who knows for sure based on the little info we got in the first episode?

I think Sasha is the main element in this whole debacle as far as Harry is concerned. No matter what he feels for Ruth, and may or may not still feel for Elena, it will probably be his link to Sasha that might move him to do something he otherwise wouldn't. Ask any parent and they will tell you there is no instinct stronger than that of a parent wanting to protect his/her child.

beatrice4ruth · 25-09-2011, 09:55 AM

OK, perhaps only Sasha and not the FSB might think that his mother has been active for 30 years. But why does he think that of his mother based on the information he found in Russia 6 weeks before their departure for England? How did the information get to Elena? It seems too much of a coincidence. And I should wait for tonight before going on speculating.

Unfortunaly, parents should but do not always want to protect all of their children. Inmates and mental ill patients even in their childhood are often abandoned by their families as I have personally noticed.

I know that Harry is a good father who loves his children, English or Russian. He just seems to have problems staying connected to them. In the case of Sasha, it is understandable. I hope that his ties with Catherine have improved very much. I feel sorry for Graham and Harry whose estrangement seems to be less dramatic for the writers than a secret Russian son.

**A Cousin** · (This post was last modified: 25-09-2011 02:31 PM by A Cousin.)

C'mon, Silktie! Catch up! Tongue

You amaze me with your recall and analysis based one viewing. I (obviously) have to watch several times to keep up with the plot.

(25-09-2011 09:55 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote: I know that Harry is a good father who loves his children, English or Russian. He just seems to have problems staying connected to them.

(PSA: Please humour me while I ramble a bit here. Thank you. Smile

)

I would agree (and certainly hope) that Sasha will be the key in this series and not Elena. I am not sure that Harry has been a good father but I do agree that he does care for his children.

While I would like to think that Harry pushed Catherine and Graham away to protect them from his job, I think he did it more because he "serves [his] country in whatever capacity asked of [him]." Full stop. It is only recently that he has begun to realize the full ramifications of that kind of sure moral sense. First in S2 with Catherine - another situation in which he was not at his operational best but shows that he clearly cares for her - and now with Sasha. Sasha is a bit different given the situation around his almost defection. I think that Harry did that to protect him. Full stop.

Wait a minute, I just had a thought. (Always dangerous.... Tongue

) I assumed that Sasha was going to defect with Elena but do we know that right now? Ruth mentions it in the last scene when Harry is coming clean to her - but that might just be an assumption? Did Harry burn Elena to keep her with Sasha in Russia?

One more question: During the scene when Harry is coming clean to Ruth re: Sasha, does Elena whisper something to Harry in the flashbacks? Is she telling him that Sasha is his? In other words, how does Harry know Sasha is his? I suppose Harry has to believe this b/c he has to believe he is the bestest spy ever. (Love that, Silktie!) But Coaver sure looks an awful lot like Harry.

And we forget Ilya in this equation. How much does he know? What is the very loaded past he and Harry clearly share? Can't be about Elena, b/c he wasn't supposed to know about that. Or her spying for MI5.

Or maybe, Spooks being Spooks, I am just suspicious of everyone. Wink

**Silktie** · 25-09-2011, 04:04 PM

Yeah, I suspect Ilya of playing a double role here. I think Russia has ulterior motives with the cooperation with Britain and he will be the one orchestrating it. There is also more between Harry and Ilya than his wife. Harry tells the HS that Ilya was personally responsible for killing British Intelligence officers, and we know Harry tends to take these things somewhat personally. Who knows, maybe one of these officers got killed by Ilya because Harry had to let it happen to protect his asset (Elena)?

And I also suspect Jim Coaver. How do we know he really burnt Elena's file like he told Harry he did? Maybe he has been running her still in the intervening years? My money is currently on him as Harry's impersonator. I think it was the CIA's way of trying to find out what the Rusians and Brits were getting up to.

Heh, and all of this will probably get blown out of the water by the end of the second episode. Tongue