Poll: Will Harry survive the show?

**A Cousin** · 27-09-2011, 01:15 PM

So - Elena and Harry at the ballet. What a loaded scene with both Elena and Sasha. Great stuff passing between PF and AK in that scene. I wonder when Sasha is going to find out or figure out that Harry is his father?

Thoughts?

**Silktie** · 27-09-2011, 04:55 PM

I really felt for Harry in that scene, when he asked Elena what Sasha was like. Imagine having to do that about your own son. Also interesting that he told Ruth in episode 1 that he'd tried to have contact with Sasha through the years. I wonder how on earth he did that?

I think Sasha will find out when next he points a gun in Harry's face and Harry says: "Sasha, I am your father," and then breathes funny for some reason.

Or, Harry and Ilya will be in a stand-off and Sasha arrives on the scene, and Harry says: "Will Sasha's father take one step forward. Not so fast, Ilya."

I guess it's a good thing I'm not writing it...

Tea Lady · 27-09-2011, 08:41 PM

Harry must have been involved in Sasha's upbringing in his early years. How else would Sasha remember him? Sasha remembered the last time he saw Harry, when he was 5yrs old. Harry must have played "uncle Harry" for a child to have that sort of memory.

I took the flashback scene as being when Elena tells Harry she is not defecting with him. That is the last time he sees Sasha. He chooses not to go after them, to sacrifice his happiness to protect those he cares most for. He did the same with Ruth when she sailed away.

Naivety · 27-09-2011, 08:57 PM

(27-09-2011 08:41 PM)Tea Lady Wrote: Harry must have been involved in Sasha's upbringing in his early years. How else would Sasha remember him? Sasha remembered the last time he saw Harry, when he was 5yrs old. Harry must have played "uncle Harry" for a child to have that sort of memory.

I took the flashback scene as being when Elena tells Harry she is not defecting with him. That is the last time he sees Sasha. He chooses not to go after them, to sacrifice his happiness to protect those he cares most for. He did the same with Ruth when she sailed away.

Harry has always put the defence of the nation before himself or the people he cares about. I think that is going to be true to the very end, and it's got to be why the scene with Robert Glenister was included in the opening scene setting in episode 1. 'That kind of moral sense limits a man'. This series is all about the moral sense of Harry, and I think that Ruth will be found to possess it too.

beatrice4ruth · 28-09-2011, 12:42 AM

Just curious.

If moral sense means the ability to determine the rightness or wrongness of actions, why did Harry have an affair with Elena, the wife of a KGB officer? I understand why he ended the liaison, but not why he started it even if he was in love? If the defence of the nation was so important to Harry even during the Cold War, why did he get entangled in an affair with an enemy agent? To me, it is a puzzle.

When you say that Ruth also possesses moral sense, do you mean that she would denounce Harry to the HS if he continues to cover up his involvement with Elena and Sasha for personal reasons and not for the exposure of the impersonator? I think she would because her moral sense is more obvious than that of Harry. She does not hesitate to confront his decisions when she believes that they are wrong. If Ruth exposes Harry, she might be seen as a traitor by some fans. However, she would do the right thing.

I hope that Harry stays true to his moral sense to the very end. For the time being, it does not look too promising. His dilemna is that sometimes his moral sense seems to conflict with his desire to protect those he loves.

Naivety · 28-09-2011, 06:55 AM

(28-09-2011 12:42 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote: Just curious.

If moral sense means the ability to determine the rightness or wrongness of actions, why did Harry have an affair with Elena, the wife of a KGB officer? I understand why he ended the liaison, but not why he started it even if he was in love? If the defence of the nation was so important to Harry even during the Cold War, why did he get entangled in an affair with an enemy agent? To me, it is a puzzle.

When you say that Ruth also possesses moral sense, do you mean that she would denounce Harry to the HS if he continues to cover up his involvement with Elena and Sasha for personal reasons and not for the exposure of the impersonator? I think she would because her moral sense is more obvious than that of Harry. She does not hesitate to confront his decisions when she believes that they are wrong. If Ruth exposes Harry, she might be seen as a traitor by some fans. However, she would do the right thing.

I hope that Harry stays true to his moral sense to the very end. For the time being, it does not look too promising. His dilemna is that sometimes his moral sense seems to conflict with his desire to protect those he loves.

Perhaps Harry had an affair with Elena in order to turn her into an agent for Britain? It may seem callous in a human sense, but his duty is to Britain. He showed that in this last episode when he told Erin not to tell Martha she was in danger until the last possible minute. That's why the line 'does that make you uncomfortable?' was included. It portrays Harry's determination to get the most info regardless of the human cost.

**A Cousin** · 28-09-2011, 01:20 PM

(28-09-2011 06:55 AM)Naivety Wrote:
(28-09-2011 12:42 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote: If moral sense means the ability to determine the rightness or wrongness of actions, why did Harry have an affair with Elena, the wife of a KGB officer? I understand why he ended the liaison, but not why he started it even if he was in love? If the defence of the nation was so important to Harry even during the Cold War, why did he get entangled in an affair with an enemy agent? To me, it is a puzzle.

Perhaps Harry had an affair with Elena in order to turn her into an agent for Britain? It may seem callous in a human sense, but his duty is to Britain. He showed that in this last episode when he told Erin not to tell Martha she was in danger until the last possible minute. That's why the line 'does that make you uncomfortable?' was included. It portrays Harry's determination to get the most info regardless of the human cost.

Good point Naivety. That is quite possible on a speculative level.

I would also add that people evolve. The Harry of 30 years ago is not the Harry of today. (Is anyone? I know I'm not.... Wink

) It's quite possible that Harry simply f*cked that one up. He is, after all, only human. The program has illustrated on several occasions that his sure moral sense applies to his job but not always his personal life. In fact, every character on Spooks have been lacking in their personal lives in one way or another due to the demands of the job. It is not particularly commendable but it is very human. It is also the bottom line of what the programme is about.

On a more thematic level, that is the essence of a Greek tragedy - a basically decent man makes a bad decision that resurfaces to bite him in the ass despite his best efforts to make it right.

**Silktie** · 29-09-2011, 06:06 AM

The relationship between Harry and Towers also interests me. Towers has twice in two episodes now, reminded Harry how tenuous his position is at the moment. The sly little comment in episode 2 about how they both knew what would happen if the Russian withdrew from the deal with Britain was a reminder to Harry that he is only back because Gavrik asked for him. And in the first episode he was quick to tell Harry that he shouldn't be disrespectful towards him because he saved his bacon.

Methinks Towers is enjoying being in a position to lord it over Harry. Does this mean Harry is unlikely to get much support from Towers if the shit hits the fan later in the season?

Tea Lady · 29-09-2011, 09:55 AM

I can't make my mind up about Towers. I don't know if he is just being a pompous ass, or being clever and using a bit of reverse psychology on Harry to get him active after his suspension. I am convinced though that Gavrik knows someone wants the partnership to fail which is why he asked for Harry. Gavrik knows Harry is the best, but finds he's not on top form. Gavrik's spy skills are second to none, seeing his reaction to Martha in 10.2, so I would think he suspects he is being used.

I don't think Harry can completely trust Towers. He never could.

On another note I do wonder how Towers got to see the file Harry prepared on Ruth. Harry left the Inquiry with it. The panel didn't need to see it. Surely that means Harry gave Towers the file?? Why would Harry do that??

beatrice4ruth · 29-09-2011, 10:17 AM

Harry might have given the file to the HS perhaps to protect Ruth in the event of his possible downfall which he might have expected as soon as he heard about the Gavriks. Harry might have wanted to have Ruth safely removed from Section D through a promotion by the HS. If Harry did not give his evaluation of Ruth to Towers, it is possible that Harry's files are being hacked by the government or even by the impersonator (Towers?). We might soon find out how Towers got Ruth's file in episode 3.