[spoilers] Harry and Ruth: Back With A Vengeance?

[expat]

(17-01-2011 09:27 PM)watchstrap Wrote:  They really don't frighten the horses.

Ha ha! Love it, Watchstrap.

I don't think it's entirely the fear of imperfect bodies and the spectre of middle aged people in the emotional throes of love that keeps the writers on this path. All of the doubt and hesitation and mistrust certainly isn't what I'd want in my own life, but it keeps us watching. That said, I don't think we'll see characters like H&R in the kind of gratuitous sex scenes Lucas was in, as in my opinion some of those scenes were pure flesh flogging.

This has already been said better by others, but I think that another season of Ruth and Harry doing the tension dance on the same team is just untenable. It would be disengenuous and cruel of Ruth to stay in this tiny MI5 dept, knowing what she knows of how Harry feels. Thus to keep them "together," there will be some external force that causes her to fight for him. She can't just leave because she has to save him. That drags on for a season, in the background of the threat du jour and ill-advised rabbit couplings of the youngsters. We think we know she loves him, but he doesn't know--the uncertainty keeps us watching and the external forces keep them apart.

But then I always guess wrong. I think I'll join the cake people!

[Forever Secret]

(18-01-2011 10:09 AM)Obsession Wrote:  Loved your comment watchstrap. I've wondered about that a fair bit too. Kinda got me annoyed they have to be so quaint, while Ros and Adam are at it, and Lucas with all his women.

Give us the goods.

You know, I was thinking exacty they same thing about Adam/Ros ect the other day

Look at all the other relationships that have occured, all the other members of the team who have had at least a chance, it annoys me
And relationships like Adam/Ros and Lucas/Sarah, ect all were quiet fiesty, and a different kind of tension to what Harry and Ruth have
How I see it Harry and Ruth's story is more of a "true" or "classic" love story because of what they've been through together and the problems they face...
And if Ruth and Harry did get together... just because they are together doesn't mean they have to be all over each other every time they are alone, actually that would be pretty OOC for them, just allow them to be together, have some kind of scenes of revealtion between them where they both admit how they feel, I'd be happy to see them kiss and continue it on from there
I suppose we can hope

(18-01-2011 01:50 PM)expat Wrote:  ...That said, I don't think we'll see characters like H&R in the kind of gratuitous sex scenes Lucas was in, as in my opinion some of those scenes were pure flesh flogging.

This has already been said better by others, but I think that another season of Ruth and Harry doing the tension dance on the same team is just untenable. It would be disengenuous and cruel of Ruth to stay in this tiny MI5 dept, knowing what she knows of how Harry feels. Thus to keep them "together," there will be some external force that causes her to fight for him. She can't just leave because she has to save him. That drags on for a season, in the background of the threat du jour and ill-advised rabbit couplings of the youngsters. We think we know she loves him, but he doesn't know--the uncertainty keeps us watching and the external forces keep them apart.

But then I always guess wrong. I think I'll join the cake people!

Totally right There's would never be a Lucas-type scene for them... well, do I speak too soon? nahh I don't think there would be, If Harry and Ruth did get together I think we'd only see up to a certain point, as in the typical "Annnnnd next morning" kind of scene.

Definatly it would be cruel of Ruth and I totally agree about her having to fight for him.
After what happened in S5, if she did leave to save again I don't think he could allow her to do it, it would break him, she sacrificed herself to save him before, and in S9 he returned the favour, not trading Albany, but trading his life and career to save her

Of course we see she loves him, and she knows that he loves her...
But poor Harry, he's still not sure if she loves him, all these mixed signals he's getting...it's like he doesn't know what he can do to make things right

*sighs* I guess we should have confidence that the writters will be kind to Harry and Ruth in S10... *Laughs*...
We can always hope

I undestand that the tension is one of the reason people keep watching (It was a similar thing in Ashes to Ashes and that was the reason they gave for not getting Gene and Alex together, they said there would be no show) but that show only went on for 3 Series of 8 Eps each,
H/R has been going on for much longer, and after so long, the tension and will they/won't they gets a little boring and repetitive,
I suppose getting them together would give us a change of direction...and new problems and challenges could rise up out of it, personal and professional

[DogSoSmall]

Yes, indeed. Time to use a little imagination, Kudos!! Stop being so formulaic.

[Obsession]

Very true. Maybe I should eat cake, and wish I'd voted differently.

[Silktie]

I have always thought the most likely route the HR story will play out is that they will get them together for a season, and then one of them will die horribly at the end of that season. Now before you kick me out of the cake club, this is not necessarily my preferred option, but you know, I think I will actually be okay with it. I just don't want them to die wondering - I want them to at least have the courage to try a relationship.

Those of you who've seen the remake Of Battlestar Galactica will know that they did a similar storyline with Admiral Adama and President Roslin, and I think it was beautifully done. I was very okay with their bittersweet ending, so I think it can work for our beloved couple. First prize will always be them riding off in the sunset together, but as Spooks isn't really that type of show, I'll settle for them being happy for a little while at least.

[DogSoSmall]

For heaven's sake, people, stop giving Kudos permission for a sad ending! (not that they need our permission, of course, they're quite capable of that on their own). I don't understand this obsession in the film world for tragedy - "it's not a rom-com therefore it has to end badly, to prove our credibility". I have read a number of beautifully written, quality pieces of literature which have then been translated to the screen and the film makers have inexplicably decided that the satisfying, happy ending which perfectly rounded off the story should be changed to a sad, frustrating one. WHY? Are we all so cynical that it's the only thing a modern audience will accept? If you want reality, the truth is, some people really are made to be together and manage to achieve it and be happy. I don't find that boring. I find it refreshing and delightful, and couldn't we all do with a little hope in amongst this complicated, bloody struggle of a life? (Sorry, getting a little carried away here).

[HellsBells]

Totally agree with you DogSoSmall, a happy ending is not bad (in fact if I find out a film has a sad ending, I tend not to watch it!). It would be a change of direction for Spooks, but change can be a good thing. H/R is only a part of Spooks so I don't think it would be so awful if they were together and happy.

[A Cousin]

(19-01-2011 06:45 AM)Silktie Wrote:  I have always thought the most likely route the HR story will play out is that they will get them together for a season, and then one of them will die horribly at the end of that season.

Silktie - get out of my brain! What my romantic side wants to have happen and what I think they are really going to do are two completely different things. And I am really pretty fine either way.

What you suggest above is kind of where I think they are going to take it as well. But I think it will be the best case scenario. Or one will simply leave because they can't work together anymore. In the end, what happens will be dictated by contracting, other commitments of PF and NW and the whether or not there will be a S11 at all. As one who was reasonably satisfied with S9 in regards to the exploration into the HR friendship, I will be happy as long as it is well written.

Just playing Devil's Advocate a bit (and ducking the rotten tomatoes that will inevitably be thrown at me), there is one more option: Ruth does not love Harry in that way and does not want to "be" with him. To ride this wave for a moment, I know there are very few here who think that Ruth doesn't love/respect/adore Harry. I would agree with that. Perhaps the nature of her feelings for him are simply not the same as his for her? Right now, I don't precisely know where she stands. If Ruth point blank said to Harry, "I don't love you in that way and I don't want to marry you" rather than cloaking it in "we couldn't be more together" double speak, would I be able to accept that at face value? I could, because at least it is all on the table. Should Ruth commit to Harry just because he loves her? Would any of us commit to someone just because they loved us? I wouldn't - because that would be unfair and completely dishonest to both parties.

[Silktie]

Good point, AC. If she just loves him as a friend, she shouldn't be with him only because he loves her so much. But if that is the case, she should also be honest enough to tell him so rather than say things that gives him hope there's still a chance.

I don't think it's the case, though. I think she really does truly love him, as I don't see Ruth as cruel enough to string him along if she doesn't love him.

Haha, I dare Kudos to prove us all wrong and provide a happy ending for once. We know they like to do the unexpected, and a happy ending for Harry and Ruth certainly would be unexpected.

[Forever Secret]

(19-01-2011 03:50 PM)Silktie Wrote:  Good point, AC. If she just loves him as a friend, she shouldn't be with him only because he loves her so much. But if that is the case, she should also be honest enough to tell him so rather than say things that gives him hope there's still a chance.

I don't think it's the case, though. I think she really does truly love him, as I don't see Ruth as cruel enough to string him along if she doesn't love him.

Haha, I dare Kudos to prove us all wrong and provide a happy ending for once. We know they like to do the unexpected, and a happy ending for Harry and Ruth certainly would be unexpected.

Oooh you took the words Right out of my mouth
If we also found out that the 7 Series they've known each other hat the build up was all for Harry and that Ruth doesn't love him like that I don't think the majority would be very happy bunnies (But if that were the case, pleasing majorities then Lucas would've had a different S9)
I mean if Ruth isn't 'in love' with Harry then what was S8, 9 all about, all those moments they had? It would've been a waste, and it would break poor Harry's heart.
Watching over S8 and 9 again I do think that she does love him, as in 'in love' with him, I agree, I don't think she's cruel enough to lead him on,
Perhaps because of what she feels she already feels like she's being cruel, because she feels that given the chance to be with him things could either go very wrong, or thier relationship would just get in the way and she doesn't think its fair on either of them

Actually I was watching 8.1 with an audio commentary, I cant remember who was doing it, whether it was a writter or director, but during the scene where Harry and Ruth meet again one of them did say "They were in love with each other" I always tend to listen to the ones who write and direct, and NW and PF spent so much time creating the tension, the relationsip between Ruth and Harry, why throw it all away by finding out the feeing between isn't mutual?

I'm daring Kudos too Come on Kudos, one happy ending won't kill anyone ... wait... could've spoken too soon,
haha a Happy ending is Spook is always unexpected, and Kudos DO like unexpected