[spoilers] Harry and Ruth: Back With A Vengeance?

[HellsBells]

I agree that the Harry/Ruth relationship is the only thing to tempt viewers to series 10. But it will have to move on fairly quickly if they want people to keep watching.

[Silktie]

(25-03-2011 02:36 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  I agree that the Harry/Ruth relationship is the only thing to tempt viewers to series 10. But it will have to move on fairly quickly if they want people to keep watching.

To be fair, I think that's mostly true for those who are invested enough to post on forums about Spooks. However, I think there are a lot of people out there who watch Spooks for the thrills and the action and some mindless entertainment, and doesn't care all that much who the characters are that are delivering said action.

One dynamic that is different from previous seasons in the whole will they/won't they debate, is that it is now acknowledged between them that Harry loves Ruth. She acknowledges it as well when she tells him he was wrong to love her when he chose to give Albany to Lucas. But we have not yet heard a clear acknowledgement from Ruth that she loves Harry. So maybe the main progress in season 10 will be Ruth also acknowledging that she does love Harry, or deciding that she actually does not.

[Forever Secret]

I think Harry and Ruth's relationship is a main element of the show that keeps its fans watching, but it doesn't make the show, it just contributes a lot to it, for some people they do watch just for the action, story of the week and the whole personal side and relationships don't really bother them.


That's true Silktie, for all the Series that the whole Harry/Ruth thing has been going on actually neither of them have actually said those three words.
Ruth knows that Harry loves her, but I think poor Harry is still not sure of she feels the same. Personally I think she does love Harry but thinks of it as a weakness or that it would just get in the way of her job and although I hope they get together I agree that in S10 they need to either acknowledge that she loves him or let it go, but I don't think they would decide to write in that she doesn't love him that would end the will they/won't they and the tension despite how Harry feels, and the show would lose one of it's elements

[A Cousin]

Reading these posts got me pondering this idea. Sorry if it is kind of rambling and not very coherent.

I wonder if Harry sees Ruth as his redemption for the morally questionable things he has done in his past? I also wonder, if this is the case, if Ruth is holding him off because she thinks he loves her for what she represents to him and not necessarily what she is? I wonder if Ruth thinks he is love with the idea of her and not actually her. It is a lot of pressure to have the happiness of another human being solely in your hands. Not quite as much pressure as having the deaths of millions of people by genetic weapon on your head, but a parallel responsibility on a personal level?

[xRuthx]

^I have thought that for a long time!

[cateau1]

I know this is all fiction but ... Do you think people really analyze their reason for love? It's such an emotional thing don't we just tend to go with the flow and any rationalization is purely to justify/reinforce our feelings?

[Tea Lady]

(25-03-2011 07:29 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  Reading these posts got me pondering this idea. Sorry if it is kind of rambling and not very coherent.

I wonder if Harry sees Ruth as his redemption for the morally questionable things he has done in his past? I also wonder, if this is the case, if Ruth is holding him off because she thinks he loves her for what she represents to him and not necessarily what she is? I wonder if Ruth thinks he is love with the idea of her and not actually her. It is a lot of pressure to have the happiness of another human being solely in your hands. Not quite as much pressure as having the deaths of millions of people by genetic weapon on your head, but a parallel responsibility on a personal level?

I think I'm probably rambling now, so Harry needs Ruth to make him a "good" man, to give him soul? Ruth is happy playing this part in his life which is why she was so disappointed when he fell apart a little at the start of S9 and when he gave up Albany? Now she knows Albany is fake does she want to go back to being useful from a distance? I think we are going to see an awful lot of Ruth in S10.

This has probably been mentioned before (sorry I'm tired) but do you think they would stick Ruth in Harry's job on a temp basis while he is investigated? She's a desk officer, and more senior than the other officers? Can you imagine Ruth having to sit at Harry's desk? Angst ahoy !!

Anyway, my 3 nephews love Spooks and they certainly do not watch it for the H/R fluff/angst. Mr TL certainly doesn't watch it for H/R either.

[Silktie]

(25-03-2011 07:29 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  I wonder if Harry sees Ruth as his redemption for the morally questionable things he has done in his past? I also wonder, if this is the case, if Ruth is holding him off because she thinks he loves her for what she represents to him and not necessarily what she is? I wonder if Ruth thinks he is love with the idea of her and not actually her. It is a lot of pressure to have the happiness of another human being solely in your hands. Not quite as much pressure as having the deaths of millions of people by genetic weapon on your head, but a parallel responsibility on a personal level?

A very interesting thought, which raises two questions for me.

Firstly, is Harry holding onto Ruth because he sees her as his redemption? When I think about this I come back to the fact of who Harry was when he first fell in love with her. The Harry over seasons 3 and 4 was not a man looking for redemption. He was a man who was at ease with who he was and what he'd done, and fell in love with Ruth because of who she was, methinks. By the time we reach season 9 I agree it's possible that the issue of redemption may have become a part of it, but has it become the main reason he still loves her? Do people's reasons for loving someone change that much over time? Who knows.

Secondly, does Ruth think that Harry wants her to love him as this would redeem him? I can't answer that, and I don't think Ruth can either. Ruth in season 9 is represented as someone who's rather confused about her relationship with Harry. She gives contradictory reasons for why she doesn't want to marry him, and her actions say something different to her words as well. When Harry proposes, she says no 'because of the choices he'd made'. What choices? Is she referring to what happened with George and Nico? Or to the morally questionable choices he regularly makes in the job in general? Either way, she later contradicts herself on this, by intimating in 9.7 that she has forgiven him for George and Nico and that it is rather her anger at herself for being able to cope so well with losing them and killing that guy that is the problem. She also pushes him to sacrifice the few to save the many at the end of 9.1, because sometimes it is just a numbers game, she tells him. My overall impression of season 9 is that Ruth's reasons for rejecting Harry is more about herself and not being at peace with who and what she's become, rather than her views on why Harry wants to be with her.

(25-03-2011 09:01 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  This has probably been mentioned before (sorry I'm tired) but do you think they would stick Ruth in Harry's job on a temp basis while he is investigated? She's a desk officer, and more senior than the other officers? Can you imagine Ruth having to sit at Harry's desk? Angst ahoy !!

I'd love to see that. Have Ruth act as Section Head while Harry is suspended, and throw a few of the difficult choices he is sometimes faced with her way. It'll be interesting to see how she handles such a situation.

[Forever Secret]

Was just searching round Twitter
Anyone read Ian Wylies blog ?

Series S10 Spoiler: show

Simon Crawford Collins said this about Harry and Ruth

"The heart of the show for the last 10 years has been Harry Pearce and his increasingly thwarted relationship with the wonderful Ruth. In Harry and Ruth, Peter and Nicola have created two of the most subtle and engaging characters in TV drama today and this series will take them both on a very unexpected journey. We hope it will be unmissable television"

Ooooh does this make anyone else a little nervous about what this journey for them will be like? It's been a while since we heard anything about them, but this doesn't fill me with hope about them for S10

Also I'm never optimisitic about new character coming in, one fear is that either Harry or Ruth will end up with someone else, one of these new characters because they're so hurt by whats happened in S9, and so it creates a new kind if tension between them, and a jealously, I think I read a fan fic similar to it... Its one thing I hope doesn't happen

Agreed, Harry is boss, can't imagine anyone else doing his job! can't see Ruth wanting his job either even if she was offered it

[DogSoSmall]

Or maybe they will demote Harry and make Ruth his boss. That would certainly be unexpected, not to mention leading to all sorts of complications! I simply couldn't imagine Harry, the ultimate alpha-male, not being the boss. He would find it impossible!