Plot-holes

[Jackk14]

(19-04-2011 10:05 AM)WhiteSwan Wrote:  

(18-04-2011 11:46 PM)Jackk14 Wrote:  Despite John acting as Lucas, he'd still been a spy for the British for a while, so whatever his identity he still knew stuff about the Security Services that the Russians could use. I think they would assume that the British SS had carried out the neccessary checks to ascertain who Lucas was, and the Russians wouldn't bother, they'd just torture him for the information.

They kept him simply because he was a spy and was probably caught spying on the Russians.

If Lucas had in reality been John, there would have been no need to torture him. He would have made a deal with the Russians, giving them all the information they wanted and betraying his country without a moment's hesitation in exchange for being happily reunited with the love of his life. Because John Bateman wasn't someone prepared to suffer for any higher moral values, he was portrayed to us as a treacherous wimp whose only real interest in life was to be back in the arms of Maya. That's why that whole story just doesn't make any sense at all.

Towards the end of S9 "Lucas" says he regretted killing Lucas and wanted to do all the good he would have done in the service. "Lucas" was a real British Spy but he got into it all for the wrong reasons and the wrong way. At that time he believed he was Lucas and acted accordingly. He wouldn't pop up and be like "by the way my real names John, got any jobs going Mr Russian?"

[WhiteSwan]

(20-04-2011 12:49 AM)Jackk14 Wrote:  Towards the end of S9 "Lucas" says he regretted killing Lucas and wanted to do all the good he would have done in the service. "Lucas" was a real British Spy but he got into it all for the wrong reasons and the wrong way. At that time he believed he was Lucas and acted accordingly. He wouldn't pop up and be like "by the way my real names John, got any jobs going Mr Russian?"

JB lied as soon as he opened his mouth - to Maya, to Harry, to Malcolm, to everybody. So I simply don't believe he regretted killing "Lucas" (something completely unnecessary as JB apparently wasn't a suspect for the terrorist attack), just like he didn't seem to regret bombing the ambassy. He was a ruthless killer without any moral values and any compassion for anybody apart from himself. He had no scruples betraying his country in exchange for a happy private life, so there is no reason why he wouldn't have done the same thing in Russia.
And I'm still wondering what JB's motive was supposed to be for entering MI5. Judging from his character I would say that he had found out how much fun it was killing other people and how important that made him feel and that he hoped for more of that. Which of course is in total contrast to the character of the "real" Lucas from S7 and S8.

[BoHenley]

Adding another plot-hole: Wouldn't there be an enquiry into the number of Section Leaders/operatives that DIE in MI5? Not even the forces get away with that.

[HellsBells]

If they had an enquiry, I think Section D would be shut down straight away!!!

[BravoNine]

(08-05-2011 12:21 AM)BoHenley Wrote:  Adding another plot-hole: Wouldn't there be an enquiry into the number of Section Leaders/operatives that DIE in MI5? Not even the forces get away with that.

LOL Are you kidding, if they had an actual inquiry, they'd all be either locked up, forced into retirement, or sent to mental institutions!

Seriously, how many moles have they had? How many people dead and gone insane?

It's a miracle this department is still running!

[Neraul]

One thing I'm wondering about is how they managed to fit everything we know about Lucas into 15 years.
Mia hadn't seen Lucas for 15 years. In those 15 years he has come back from Dakar, joined MI5, become section chief, married, gone to prison for 8 years and then has spent 2 years in MI5.
When he came back in series 7 he told his wife he was MI5 before they were married and while they were married. He was head of section D before he was captured and that would have taken some time to become.
To me this all seems a bit to tight a fit for it to have happened. But I'm probably just thinking to much.

[A Cousin]

(01-02-2012 04:10 AM)Neraul Wrote:  He was head of section D before he was captured and that would have taken some time to become.

To split hairs, he couldn't be Section Head. That's Harry. I assume you mean Section Chief - a la Tom, Adam, Ros? But was he Section Chief prior to his time in Russia? I didn't think he was. Tom maybe, but not Lucas. It may not be explicitly mentioned either way. I'll leave that to those who payed more attention to the Lucas character in S7 and S8 than I did. He only became interesting to me in S9 - warts and all.

And, yes, it probably is possible to think too hard about the Lucas arc in S9. It caused quite the furor at the time. Best to just take it or leave it, IMO, and have done with it.

[penfold]

Yes! Overthinking the "Lucas" conundrum and its plot-holes - that way lies madness.
I overthought a a lot at the end of the series -but I'm better now! [I think]