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**Kazters** · 30-04-2011, 09:22 AM

i agree with coments about the single story im not so keen on that and also there was far to much focus on lucas in s9 to the detriment of other charactors especialy beth...

**A Cousin** · (This post was last modified: 30-04-2011 02:07 PM by A Cousin.)

(28-04-2011 07:03 PM)HarryPearceSpy Wrote: Question for you and A Cousin- Do you think Andrew Woodhead was influenced by the rise of 24 and how it has a lot of action?

No - I think he is too good at what he does for that. I just think they kept raising the stakes. In a programme where the stakes started so very high, eventually it just goes there. Maybe they were influenced by the slickness of American TV overall, but they have always fought against comparisons to 24. Rightly so, IMO.

(29-04-2011 06:16 PM)loladom Wrote: In seasons 1-5 there was a focus on the action, the espionage, the intelligence gathering and the PEOPLE behind that. Now, especially in S9, that is completely missing. We learned little about Beth and zero about Demitri.

Agreed. I don't buy, at all, what a couple of the current writers said about not being able to present reasonably developed secondary characters complete with back-story and established personality before you cast the actors. A character can certainly evolve from there and all the Spooks characters have. It doesn't take much; a beat here and french scene there is all it takes. Look how well they developed Malcolm with small scenes throughout his time?

(29-04-2011 06:16 PM)loladom Wrote: I also think they've lost the intelligence of Harry and Ruth with the new writers and reference to philosophers and literature.

Hmmm.... Come to think of it. I would like to see that return. I just kind of assumed they were dropping quotes all over the place but it was all just going over my head (as usual). Wink

HellsBells · 30-04-2011, 05:20 PM

I too miss the 'intimacy' I felt with the characters in the earlier series, such as when Tom would pop round Danny and Zoe's apartment, it gave an insight into the characters.

Naivety · 02-05-2011, 01:47 PM

(29-04-2011 06:16 PM)loladom Wrote: Some great observations and I would add that the major difference for me is the move from personalisation of the characters. In seasons 1-5 there was a focus on the action, the espionage, the intelligence gathering and the PEOPLE behind that. Now, especially in S9, that is completely missing. We learned little about Beth and zero about Demitri. There are no personal scenes anymore and there is also little humour. Sadly lacking are the one liners and excellent sarcasm.

I also think they've lost the intelligence of Harry and Ruth with the new writers and reference to philosophers and literature.

The world is now sadly all about explosions and guns.

I agree absolutely with you on all of the above. I would also say that the earlier series relied on excellent actors who weren't so universally known, therefore there was never one ego dominating the storyline.

I'm not a huge fan of the series 'arc' either. I think the interaction of the characters with each other provides the only story arc it needs. I loved the completely random stand alone stories that made up each episode.

As for the writing, it has lost the subtlety; the very clever one liners that Peter Firth put his stamp on; the Jane Austen style romance of Harry and Ruth and the sinister John le Carre edge.

Having said all that, I still love it to bits!

BAUER24 · 02-05-2011, 02:26 PM

There seems to be a lack of one liners and humour especially since series 8. I think they have substituted that for more action and stunts.

HarryPearceSpy · 02-05-2011, 09:18 PM

(30-04-2011 01:54 PM)A Cousin Wrote:
(28-04-2011 07:03 PM)HarryPearceSpy Wrote: Question for you and A Cousin- Do you think Andrew Woodhead was influenced by the rise of 24 and how it has a lot of action?

No - I think he is too good at what he does for that. I just think they kept raising the stakes. In a programme where the stakes started so very high, eventually it just goes there. Maybe they were influenced by the slickness of American TV overall, but they have always fought against comparisons to 24. Rightly so, IMO.

(29-04-2011 06:16 PM)loladom Wrote: In seasons 1-5 there was a focus on the action, the espionage, the intelligence gathering and the PEOPLE behind that. Now, especially in S9, that is completely missing. We learned little about Beth and zero about Demitri.

Agreed. I don't buy, at all, what a couple of the current writers said about not being able to present reasonably developed secondary characters complete with back-story and established personality before you cast the actors. A character can certainly evolve from there and all the Spooks characters have. It doesn't take much; a beat here and french scene there is all it takes. Look how well they developed Malcolm with small scenes throughout his time?

(29-04-2011 06:16 PM)loladom Wrote: I also think they've lost the intelligence of Harry and Ruth with the new writers and reference to philosophers and literature.

Hmmm.... Come to think of it. I would like to see that return. I just kind of assumed they were dropping quotes all over the place but it was all just going over my head (as usual).

Good points, A Cousin. Spooks is far better than 24 and I apologize if I was trying to compare the two shows too much. I like Spooks much more than 24.

You also make a great point about what the focus was on during the first several series. I really liked seeing various aspects, especially the intelligence gathering and learning more about the characters...there needs to be more of the latter. The characters are very important to the story and its important to (not sure how to put this but I hope this doesn't sound confusing) show who the character is and what's their background. I also have noticed that missing in the latter series.

xRuthx · 27-05-2011, 01:09 PM

I think s1-4 were more about the tagline "mi5 not 9 till 5" and we really saw that with the characters. Those character moments were what made me love Spooks in the first place and I liked that in s7 they started to bring that back Smile

Personally speaking, I'd prefer character drama mixed with spy rather than action mixed with spy but the show has evolved and there it is for now. I still enjoy the characters so I am still watching Smile

Lozza · 13-07-2011, 06:02 AM

(29-04-2011 10:50 PM)HarryPearceSpy Wrote:
(29-04-2011 06:16 PM)loladom Wrote: Some great observations and I would add that the major difference for me is the move from personalisation of the characters. In seasons 1-5 there was a focus on the action, the espionage, the intelligence gathering and the PEOPLE behind that. Now, especially in S9, that is completely missing. We learned little about Beth and zero about Demitri. There are no personal scenes anymore and there is also little humour. Sadly lacking are the one liners and excellent sarcasm.

I also think they've lost the intelligence of Harry and Ruth with the new writers and reference to philosophers and literature.

The world is now sadly all about explosions and guns.

I never noticed that. I think you are right. The first few series showed a lot about each character and the struggles that each of them faced. It really did go down in the later series.

Series 7 Spoiler: show
I didn't get to really know Ben before he died...(just an example)

I don't know about series 9 because I haven't seen it yet, but that doesn't sound great. I still will like the action and all, but character development can definitely help. I guess that's another reason why I like the earlier series better (but still like all of them in general).

yeah, it used to be about the characters and then they drifted away from that. now though in series 9 they focused to much on one character lucas and i didnt get to know beth or dimitri

HarryPearceSpy · (This post was last modified: 14-07-2011 01:18 AM by HarryPearceSpy.)

(13-07-2011 06:02 AM)Lozza Wrote:
(29-04-2011 10:50 PM)HarryPearceSpy Wrote:
(29-04-2011 06:16 PM)loladom Wrote: Some great observations and I would add that the major difference for me is the move from personalisation of the characters. In seasons 1-5 there was a focus on the action, the espionage, the intelligence gathering and the PEOPLE behind that. Now, especially in S9, that is completely missing. We learned little about Beth and zero about Demitri. There are no personal scenes anymore and there is also little humour. Sadly lacking are the one liners and excellent sarcasm.

I also think they've lost the intelligence of Harry and Ruth with the new writers and reference to philosophers and literature.

The world is now sadly all about explosions and guns.

I never noticed that. I think you are right. The first few series showed a lot about each character and the struggles that each of them faced. It really did go down in the later series.

Series 7 Spoiler: show
I didn't get to really know Ben before he died...(just an example)

I don't know about series 9 because I haven't seen it yet, but that doesn't sound great. I still will like the action and all, but character development can definitely help. I guess that's another reason why I like the earlier series better (but still like all of them in general).

yeah, it used to be about the characters and then they drifted away from that. now though in series 9 they focused to much on one character lucas and i didnt get to know beth or dimitri

I've watched through much of S9 just recently and you're right. I really like Beth, but I think there isn't enough about her background. Same for Dimitri. I hope they'll do more character development next season.

Welcome to SF by the way!

The Grid · (This post was last modified: 22-07-2011 11:00 AM by The Grid.)

I hope we find out more about Dimitri next series. He needs to be given a background as he was so one dimensional in S9.

I agree that one shift I noticed was definetly when Zoe, Tom and Danny all departed in S3. I remember watching the series when it was on TV and I honestly thought that Spooks wouldn't get rid of its three main players! I didn't think the show would recover without the characters, but I was proved wrong. From then on, I think the show got more action based and it was clear that a character could leave at any time! Every character was dispensable from then on.