Series 10 - Episode 2 Discussion

[I Want Jo Back]

(26-09-2011 10:07 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  It seems that since S9 some fans want Ruth to be a traitor. Is it again the Lucas affair that bothers them? He is dead. Perhaps you have not seen the bloodied hand at the bottom of the screen when Harry was looking down the building in episode 1.

Why would Ruth betray Harry? Out of revenge for his 30 years-old affair with a probable Russian double agent? Out of revenge for the loss of George and Nico? I thought that we finally got rid of them.

She is a brilliant analysist and wants to know what's Harry hidding. She knows that there is more to Harry's past than Sasha. A very dirty secret would be the death of agents because Harry got involved with Elena. She also wants to find out who is the impersonator. She is going to investigate Harry's past to pinpoint exactly what went wrong. If she finds some dodgy dealings that would threaten the realm , she will confront Harry and if she does not get any satisfying answers, she will contact the HS.

I do not think that Kudos would destroy Ruth's character. It might can a surprise to some, but she is nearly more beloved than Harry. Kudos is thinking bottom line and the sale of their DVDs. As we heard over and over, Harry's past might destroy Harry and Ruth and by that not only their love but the trust between them. The impersonator wants the total destruction of Harry, both professionally and emotionally.

Who could have so much hate towards Harry?

I did see the bloodied hand but who is to say that was Lucas' hand as dont forget in ep1 when H & R were leaving Harrys hearing Ruth said to Harry that Lucas' body was found where Vaughn said it would be.

[Kazters]

(26-09-2011 10:07 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  It seems that since S9 some fans want Ruth to be a traitor. Is it again the Lucas affair that bothers them? He is dead. Perhaps you have not seen the bloodied hand at the bottom of the screen when Harry was looking down the building in episode 1.

Why would Ruth betray Harry? Out of revenge for his 30 years-old affair with a probable Russian double agent? Out of revenge for the loss of George and Nico? I thought that we finally got rid of them.

She is a brilliant analysist and wants to know what's Harry hidding. She knows that there is more to Harry's past than Sasha. A very dirty secret would be the death of agents because Harry got involved with Elena. She also wants to find out who is the impersonator. She is going to investigate Harry's past to pinpoint exactly what went wrong. If she finds some dodgy dealings that would threaten the realm , she will confront Harry and if she does not get any satisfying answers, she will contact the HS.

I do not think that Kudos would destroy Ruth's character. It might can a surprise to some, but she is nearly more beloved than Harry. Kudos is thinking bottom line and the sale of their DVDs. As we heard over and over, Harry's past might destroy Harry and Ruth and by that not only their love but the trust between them. The impersonator wants the total destruction of Harry, both professionally and emotionally.

Who could have so much hate towards Harry?

thing is, they like to make it the person you least expect! for all we know if it is ruth she is being controled by someone else! perhaps thinking it is harry!

but she is trying to hard to be in his confidence which struck with me last night, never really has she begged harry to talk to her about something!

[KoiGal]

There's no chance of a Lucas return. He's down under, in deep cover as a hobbit or something.

It's unlikely that the coroner reference is anything other than just to move the plot along.

I get all excited when I see Harry in those leather gloves. He'll usually be up to a bit of mischief.

[Nia M]

(26-09-2011 10:30 AM)I Want Jo Back Wrote:  I did see the bloodied hand but who is to say that was Lucas' hand as dont forget in ep1 when H & R were leaving Harrys hearing Ruth said to Harry that Lucas' body was found where Vaughn said it would be.

At this point though Harry and Ruth are referring to RA Lucas as 'John'. Presumably by 'Lucas' the meant the actual Lucas North. I'm pretty sure the bloodied hand was John-Lucas'.

[FATBOY]

Think the bearded FSB guy Arkanov suspected Sasha early on, notice how how he initially states the phone was traces to room 216 not 416. This spooks Sasha for a moment. I nice touch.

[beatrice4ruth]

(26-09-2011 10:30 AM)I Want Jo Back Wrote:  

(26-09-2011 10:07 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  It seems that since S9 some fans want Ruth to be a traitor. Is it again the Lucas affair that bothers them? He is dead. Perhaps you have not seen the bloodied hand at the bottom of the screen when Harry was looking down the building in episode 1.

Why would Ruth betray Harry? Out of revenge for his 30 years-old affair with a probable Russian double agent? Out of revenge for the loss of George and Nico? I thought that we finally got rid of them.

She is a brilliant analysist and wants to know what's Harry hidding. She knows that there is more to Harry's past than Sasha. A very dirty secret would be the death of agents because Harry got involved with Elena. She also wants to find out who is the impersonator. She is going to investigate Harry's past to pinpoint exactly what went wrong. If she finds some dodgy dealings that would threaten the realm , she will confront Harry and if she does not get any satisfying answers, she will contact the HS.

I do not think that Kudos would destroy Ruth's character. It might can a surprise to some, but she is nearly more beloved than Harry. Kudos is thinking bottom line and the sale of their DVDs. As we heard over and over, Harry's past might destroy Harry and Ruth and by that not only their love but the trust between them. The impersonator wants the total destruction of Harry, both professionally and emotionally.

Who could have so much hate towards Harry?

I did see the bloodied hand but who is to say that was Lucas' hand as dont forget in ep1 when H & R were leaving Harrys hearing Ruth said to Harry that Lucas' body was found where Vaughn said it would be.

Ruth was talking about the real Lucas North, the one John Bateman (is it the real name of Lucas, I can't remember) killed in Dakar. They found the body of the real Lucas North in the mango grove near Dakar. It was trying to figure out where it was, because I worked for a European embassy in Dakar and know the area.

---

(26-09-2011 10:30 AM)Kazters Wrote:  

(26-09-2011 10:07 AM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  It seems that since S9 some fans want Ruth to be a traitor. Is it again the Lucas affair that bothers them? He is dead. Perhaps you have not seen the bloodied hand at the bottom of the screen when Harry was looking down the building in episode 1.

Why would Ruth betray Harry? Out of revenge for his 30 years-old affair with a probable Russian double agent? Out of revenge for the loss of George and Nico? I thought that we finally got rid of them.

She is a brilliant analysist and wants to know what's Harry hidding. She knows that there is more to Harry's past than Sasha. A very dirty secret would be the death of agents because Harry got involved with Elena. She also wants to find out who is the impersonator. She is going to investigate Harry's past to pinpoint exactly what went wrong. If she finds some dodgy dealings that would threaten the realm , she will confront Harry and if she does not get any satisfying answers, she will contact the HS.

I do not think that Kudos would destroy Ruth's character. It might can a surprise to some, but she is nearly more beloved than Harry. Kudos is thinking bottom line and the sale of their DVDs. As we heard over and over, Harry's past might destroy Harry and Ruth and by that not only their love but the trust between them. The impersonator wants the total destruction of Harry, both professionally and emotionally.

Who could have so much hate towards Harry?

thing is, they like to make it the person you least expect! for all we know if it is ruth she is being controled by someone else! perhaps thinking it is harry!

but she is trying to hard to be in his confidence which struck with me last night, never really has she begged harry to talk to her about something!

Ruth is brilliant as we all know! She would not be fooled by the impersonator of Harry. Because she loves Harry, she is trying to save him from himself. He is in very deep trouble. After all, he was temporarily reinstated as Head of Section and cannot really afford to mess up with some Russian fling he had 30 years ago.

[Silktie]

Awesome episode! I truly enjoyed that. The suspense and tension was unbelievable all the way through. What a brave woman Martha Forde was, and I felt very sorry for her when she was burnt like that. That is one thing I do think they got a bit wrong in the episode - I'm sure in real life MI5 would have put more effort into helping her establish a new life somewhere.

Nooo!! Not poor little Tariq! I didn't expect that. Cocky Calum better step up to the plate now, he has big shoes to fill.

I don't see anything suspicious in Ruth's actions. Harry wouldn't tell her anything, so she is trying to figure it out for herself. I think she has a right to ask what happened in his meeting with Elena - if Harry is going to take only her into his confidence about his connections to Elena and Sasha, and use her to help him in his quest to find out who is impersonating him, she has a right to know everything that's going on. And if he won't tell her, she is obligated to try and find out as much as possible by other means. It is not just Harry's personal feelings on the line here, there is a bigger picture. And Ilya is in it up to his neck. I think he used his wife to get that laptop, because yes, it does look like it's Elena that Tariq spotted and got killed before he could spill the beans. Not sure that means Elena is a baddie, but perhaps it means someone wants it to look like she is one.

At the same time, I can understand Harry not wanting to talk about his feelings over Sasha. What he did say indicated how much it hurt him never to have contact with his son, and he's so used to burying those feelings, that it's unrealistic to expect him to suddenly bare his soul about it all at the first opportunity.

And I still think Jim Coaver is the impersonator, but I don't see that as too straightforward. I don't think the identity of the impersonator is going to be the main story in the end. There is something bigger and nastier at play, methinks, and the impersonator thing is just the clue that will lead us there.

I enjoyed Dimitri and Erin. Interesting parallel between Harry and Erin - I'm glad to hear she's willing to believe that she can be a good parent and be a spy. I think her comment made Harry think a bit.

[Nitrus]

When Ruth was looking at Harry's file on the contents/cover page it listed the sections and one of the sections said something like :

'Death of Bill..'

It was obscured and only on screen for a second, anyone catch what it was?

[Tess24]

I'm still not entirely convinced that Harry is actually Sasha's father. I don't think Elena is all that she is portraying and it seems just too convenient a plot for her not to have lied to Harry about this and therefore forever have someone in MI5 in her pocket. She must have known him well enough to believe he would protect her and Sasha if there was ever a time when she would be foiled.

[Scarlet]

(26-09-2011 01:39 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  When Ruth was looking at Harry's file on the contents/cover page it listed the sections and one of the sections said something like :

'Death of Bill..'

It was obscured and only on screen for a second, anyone catch what it was?

It was 'Death of Bill Crombie' (pause at 42:57 on iplayer) Good spotting - I totally missed that. Might have something to do with what's going on. Could the imposter be someone connected to this Crombie, wanting revenge for his death if Harry was in someway involved? Hm, something to ponder....