Series 10 - Episode 3 Discussion

[JHyde]

I disagree with those of you who think that Dimitri shouldn't have protested to Erin about sleeping with Natalie. Under the circumstances it was what he had to do, but such shameless manipulation of someone who was innocent in a bad situation is nothing that anyone should be so cavalier about.

Put yourself in Natalie's shoes. As last week with Martha, and as with so many people along the 10 seasons, they don't have the perspective we have. At least in Spooks' universe.

Season 10 definitely is playing to the central themes of what the show has always been about, at its best. How do officers have some semblance of a normal life? Where is the line in manipulating and using innocent people to achieve the Service's ends? How is one's conscience sated in such situations?

[harrbd]

Sparky - agree with all you said yesterday.

[dalia]

I enjoyed the episode a lot and I liked the fact that there was a story of the week and not only the Gavrik´story. I liked Dimitri here, I don´t think he was unprofessional, he just tried to think about other possibilities as it was so obvious at first that the brother was guilty and then there came doubts... Dimitri definitely deserved "his" episode already! I think we had enough and good scenes in the Gavrik´s plot line as well, especially the one in the gallery and the one with Harry saying goodbye to Sasha. I don´t think the HS is romantically interested in Ruth, he needs her professionally. It was good to hear what she said about her relationship with Harry as well. I like the pace of this series, really needn´t shooting and car chases to enjoy the story. Better than S9 for the time being for me.

[loladom]

(04-10-2011 06:20 AM)Sparky Wrote:  Just got round to watching Ep 3 and felt (like others) that it was missing something! Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the episode but the story of the week (which in the past I've enjoyed way more then the series arc) for some reason this year seems to be just getting in the way of the main story. It didn't help that the story had huge gaps in it, and Dimitri must be the most gullible Spook of all time - the fact that he believed Johnny `didn't ring true to me at all! On the plus side for him, I did enjoy his obvious discomfort at having to sleep with someone just to gain information, and I thought this came across well.

What I did really like though were the snippets around the bigger picture. I loved the scene with Harry and Ruth in his office where there seemed to be so much more going unsaid from both of them plus Harry's scene with Sasha on the Embankment. However the 2 standout out scenes for me were Ruth and Elena in the art gallery where again, so much was said without being verbalised, and Ruth's scene with the HS. Harry to me was the main character in both of these scenes, without actually being in either.

I'm hoping from here on in, the story of the week becomes less, and the series arc more as that is truly gripping at the moment!

Oh, and Calum is growing on me more and more. It's a shame he'll only ever get a max 6 episodes as I think he's becoming way more interesting to watch than Erin and Dimitri!

Agree wholeheartedly. I love what you say about Harry being the pivotal role in 2 scenes he was absent from. Great point!


At first I thought Harry was very weak and almost out of character to leave Ruth to give an explanation to the team, but now I see that as such a demonstration of just how emotionally wrought Harry now is, brilliantly portrayed by PF storming off, voice catching, shutting off, his pride wounded. He had just said goodbye to Sacha and he is vulnerable now in a way he never has been before. It also means he has delegated to Ruth an important task (showing his trust of her yet again)

Originally I didn't want Ruth to leave the grid, but on the plus side, if she goes, Harry will no longer be her boss which puts them on a whole different playing field relationship wise.

I think there was a conflict between the threat of the day and the story arc in this ep as the story arc is so intriguing and perhaps we just needed more feeding of that combined with quite a weak threat and sorry to say but at times a dreadful performance from Johnny. I did like Demitri's reluctance and also how he was duped. He isn't Adam/Lucas or even Tom, and I liked that we saw he still has a lot to learn.

[A Cousin]

(04-10-2011 02:00 PM)loladom Wrote:  I think there was a conflict between the threat of the day and the story arc in this ep as the story arc is so intriguing and perhaps we just needed more feeding of that combined with quite a weak threat and sorry to say but at times a dreadful performance from Johnny. I did like Demitri's reluctance and also how he was duped. He isn't Adam/Lucas or even Tom, and I liked that we saw he still has a lot to learn.

Getting totally nit-picky...

IMO, the best kind of baddies are the ones you can sympathize with, maybe even understand their reasons or respect their convictions even if you cannot condone their methods. They tried but the character fell just a bit short for me.

Sociopath Johnnie had a soft spot for his sister - but it was underdeveloped.

Revolutionary Johnnie had conviction and passion for his cause - but it was marginalized.

Human Johnnie was sick with cancer and had nothing to lose - but that's emotional manipulation of the viewers.

Maybe they should have just chosen one of those and run with it? I dunno. I'm not a writer.

However, I don't blame Mel Raido. I think he really took it by the jugular and ran with it. So did Georgina Rich. I also think this episode could have easily been 2 episodes - one for Dimitri/Johnnie/Natalie and one for Ruth/Towers/Elena. But, of course, that was not possible this series.

[Naivety]

I am loving this whole series, but this episode let an uninspiring threat of the week get in the way of the best series arc we've had ever (IMO). The acting talent we have in Nicola Walker, Peter Firth, Alice Krige and Simon Russell Beale is keeping us on the edge of our seats with breath held while they are on screen together. I'm finding that on re-watches with this one, I am fast forwarding through the Dimitri bits even if he is HOT!

[Silktie]

I enjoyed the disdain with which Harry handled the businessman, Rennon. As if being a disaster capitalist wasn't bad enough, he also had the temerity to call England a shithole. You just knew after that he and Harry would never be best buddies.

But it also made me wonder: At the beginning Towers tells Harry he'd been having a meeting with Big Business, and then we have Rennon and his disagreeable business practices, one of three big businessmen that the government fell over its feet to woo back to England. And we have Gavrik, the oligarch. Perhaps this agreement between Russia and Britain that Towers is so keen on, is less about geopolitical issues, and more about business deals?

[A Cousin]

(04-10-2011 06:24 PM)Naivety Wrote:  I am loving this whole series, but this episode let an uninspiring threat of the week get in the way of the best series arc we've had ever (IMO).

Yeah, I have betrayed my own Golden Rule of S10: Don't over-analyze it. Just enjoy it! with that one. Old habits die hard. I didn't hate the whole thing. I didn't even hate it. I just thought the writing for the character of Johnny Grier could have been cleaner.

(05-10-2011 05:57 AM)Silktie Wrote:  But it also made me wonder: At the beginning Towers tells Harry he'd been having a meeting with Big Business, and then we have Rennon and his disagreeable business practices, one of three big businessmen that the government fell over its feet to woo back to England. And we have Gavrik, the oligarch. Perhaps this agreement between Russia and Britain that Towers is so keen on, is less about geopolitical issues, and more about business deals?

Ain't it always? As they say, Money makes the world go 'round. Whether or not it should. Your theory makes perfect sense to me. Ties it all together too. But why Harry by request? How does Coaver and the CIA factor into this? And Elena? These are rhetorical questions. My personal 2nd Commandment for S10 is, Don't speculate too much.

[manj]

I thought it odd, casting-wise, that we were expected to assume that Dmitri was sufficiently more attractive than Natalie to honeytrap her, and so easily too. Is it just me?

[JHyde]

I think it was more that Natalie had the right combination of circumstances - she was clearly lonely and fragile among other things.

I hasten to add that being lonely and fragile aren't prerequisites for jumping into bed with someone quickly and I'm not passing judgement on Natalie at all. But I do think she was susceptible to Dimitri's charms and the approach made sense under those circumstances.