Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion

[Ceridwyn2]

(25-10-2011 03:40 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  It's interesting, I've just been tweeting with people who follow the @spookstv account and almost all of them loved the ending even if they were sad that Ruth died.

So maybe in this case people are upset because they had prior knowledge of what might happen and were expecting something else. Which isn't Kudos' fault.

Are you the one that goes by @spookstv? My twitter handle is @Ceridwyn2

Bloody brilliant ep!

[Nitrus]

(25-10-2011 10:20 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  You have summarized so well my feelings about the love of Harry and Ruth and the mockery that other fans, one person in particular, heap on us because we dare to cherish them.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Mocking you because you dared to cherish a character? Oh aren't you the martyr.

I mocked you because you spent the last 10 series thinking the show was about one thing when it wasn't, not because you threw off the shackles of oppression and dared to cherish a character.

If you're going to make me out to be this horrible mocking fan who doesn't get why you're so upset, at least make sure you know why I'm doing it.

[Ceridwyn2]

I forget who wrote this now:

Quote:Are we meant to believe that these officers will sacrifice themselves day in day out for their country and never get anything back. That in return for their sacrifice they will lead a life of depression, loneliness and devoid of hope.

In actuality, throughout the 10 seasons, the security sevices personnel have done just that. They know that in defending the Realm, they may well end up sacrificing their lives. MI-5, MI-6, CO19, military personnel and police service personnel know that it is a risk that comes with the job. They hope it doesn't happen, but sometimes it does. And really, relationship-wise, the only 'successful' ones were Adam and Fiona. Ruth and Harry only more recently have reacknowledged their feelings for each other.

They also 'get back' the knowledge and satisfaction of saving the nation from domestic and foreign terrorist plots on UK soil. Too often, one can hear/read in the news that the security services 'weren't doing enough' to stop terririst threats like the July 2006 (or 07' - I'm blanking atm) London bombings. Needless to say, that when they do get it right, the public generally isn't always made aware of the situation as it is.

They make friends and family with their coworkers. I would imagine the marital status rates for security services personnel is rather dismal.

[JHyde]

One thing I don't understand: why aren't more of you pissed off with Sascha? The number of you feeling so sorry for him. I felt sorry for him too - right up until he stabbed Ruth.

[Nitrus]

I guess I'm not annoyed with him, because he's only been in the show for a few episodes here and there. For me it would be like getting annoyed at whichever bad guy was trying to kill anyone in whichever episode from any series.

[Ceridwyn2]

I felt sorry for him even though I hated that he was the one to kill Ruth. He went through emotional hell in a very short period of time, so I wasn't surprised that he snapped.

Let's see:
- Sascha comes to London on security detail for his parents, also, he wants to find out about Harry, who he has learned had turned his mother as an MI-5 asset.
- in order to protect his mother, he kills one of his best friends, a fellow FSB agent.
- figures out there was something more to his mother's relationship with Harry
- learns from his mother the 'story' of her parents' deaths
- bugs Harry's car to get info on Coaver, breaks into Ruth's car to get Coaver's laptop
- finds out on said laptop about his parentage (Harry as Dad)
- learns of his mother's betrayal and the fact that she nearly sacrIficed her son had Harry not been so noble
- finds out that Ilya really is his father, though I have a feeling his reaction towards Harry not being his father was interesting...I think Sascha was beginning to respect him.
- witnessss his father kill his mother with enough force to crush her windpipe.

He'd reached he breaking point, literally and figuratively.

[Betty]

I don't really mind if people mock me actually I'm sort of mocking myself. Human beings are a funny bunch, and I'm just as funny as the rest of them. At this moment my husband's on the phone explaining to our daughter in college that "Mom doesn't know what to do now since her idol is dead." Her response: "Oh my gosh, they killed RUTH?" She's never even seen the show!! Ha ha

[beatrice4ruth]

(25-10-2011 11:01 PM)Ceridwyn2 Wrote:  I forget who wrote this now:

Quote:Are we meant to believe that these officers will sacrifice themselves day in day out for their country and never get anything back. That in return for their sacrifice they will lead a life of depression, loneliness and devoid of hope.

In actuality, throughout the 10 seasons, the security sevices personnel have done just that. They know that in defending the Realm, they may well end up sacrificing their lives. MI-5, MI-6, CO19, military personnel and police service personnel know that it is a risk that comes with the job. They hope it doesn't happen, but sometimes it does. And really, relationship-wise, the only 'successful' ones were Adam and Fiona. Ruth and Harry only more recently have reacknowledged their feelings for each other.

They also 'get back' the knowledge and satisfaction of saving the nation from domestic and foreign terrorist plots on UK soil. Too often, one can hear/read in the news that the security services 'weren't doing enough' to stop terririst threats like the July 2006 (or 07' - I'm blanking atm) London bombings. Needless to say, that when they do get it right, the public generally isn't always made aware of the situation as it is.

They make friends and family with their coworkers. I would imagine the marital status rates for security services personnel is rather dismal.

You are describing Spooks's version of the intelligence services, based mostly on fantasy. No wonder that the former head of MI5 or was it MI6 scoffed at Spooks for its ludicrous description of the lives of spies. John Le Carre has the same opinion of Spooks.

By the way I would not call Adam and Fiona relationship successful. It did not end too well for them and poor orphaned Wes.

In the USA, where I live and you can guess where I live, most intelligence service officers lead perfectly normal lives among us, their friends, and the rest of the population without being killed or kidnapped. Their kids go to regular schools and their spouses work in regular jobs. Spies would burn-out very quickly if they all lived like Section D. In fact, most often than not, their jobs are boring, collecting information from around the world. Some spies might live in dangerous countries and risk their lives every day. Most of them live in their native country or in friendly nations.

As PF remarked, Spooks is just entertainment. I enjoy its plausible and implausible plots and most of all Harry and Ruth, though not the end of 10.6!

[pfgirl1980]

Who would have thought that the end of a series could devide opinion's so much!
At the end of the day Spooks was an amazing idea that nobody thought would last 1 series never mind 10 and I've loved every single betrayal,loyal,high tempo,explosive,unfinshed buisness,storyline that has been written.
So Harry and Ruth didnt get there,well deserved,happy ending....niether did Danny and Zoe,Adam and Fiona,Ros and Adam,Tom and Ellie,even Malcolm and Colin didnt get the chance to grow old together coming up with new gadget's. Those tense 'will they wont they' moments made the programme I think,they kept it with a sense of real life instead of a soap opera,with everyone signing off to that little cottage by the sea and living happily ever after.
Dont get me wrong I would have loved for Harry and Ruth to have that second chance at love but,really,would we have been able to imagine them both sat by the fire,listening to classical music,Harry with his scotch and Ruth with her book's,not a care in the world about what could be going on around them,honestly I dont think I could imagine that myself but that's just my opinion.
Spooks for me wasnt just about the work of MI5 and the terror's they stop,it was about the true cost of what they have lost in their chosen career's?
Think about it,in dedicating their lives to their country none of them really had a chance of living any kind of 'normality',they all payed the ultimate cost i.e some lost their live's,some lost their identity and other's lost their loved one's,whether it was fact or fiction,Spooks involved us in the day to day life of a career that most would run a mile from and yet we felt for the sacrifice's they made.
I may be getting a little carried away with myself but in the end we all come here because we loved what we were watching unfold on our screens over that period of 60 minuite's that we became completely involved in.
I've read the post's of alternative ending's and fictional plot's that most of you have written and in the end they've all been about certain charactor's or particular storyline's and I dont understand why,just because it's finished,suddenly most are devided about the way it ended??
I,myself,loved every second of Spooks,whether people lived,died,found love or lost love,betrayed or were betrayed,agreed or disagreed....It was an amazing series with an amazing cast that made every episode an episode worth talking about on here.
As a fan of Peter Firth I will miss his witty one liner's and telling look's across the desk that could only ever be sat at by Sir Harry Pearce but most of all I will miss Spooks itself because even if the bbc tried to palm us off with something similar to what Spooks has given us it would never be the same,it would never have the same energy or cheimistry that all the cast have given us over the last ten series and I would hope that all Spooks fans would agree.

[Tomsdouble]

It's 1.02 am on a Wednesday morning and I've just finished watching episode 6. It was a (dare I say it) typical episode for the first 50 minutes - tension, a car driving somewhere, a man shot in the head, action, the usual dollop of misdirection; the stuff we all know and love, the reasons everyone on here watches Spooks.

Then something happened: the episode essentially ended and the 'closure' began.

It was beautiful. I'm sorry but it really was. Ruth's death, even in the midst of a programme that specialises in the killing of major characters, was hearbreaking. The list of names on the wall was, to me, genuinely moving; the brief appearance (I was hoping they'd do something like this) of Tom was so fitting and startling it hurt (in a good way). The sight of Harry visiting what might have been was the moment the lump really started to develop in my throat. I am still in shock, I really am. I tried to hold back the tears but it was too hard.

We now live in a post-Spooks world. It will take some getting used to. I have to just tell myself that Harry is still there, ensuring the defence of the realm.

And even though I've just written all this I still feel speechless.