Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion

[A Cousin]

(27-10-2011 09:03 AM)Naivety Wrote:  

(27-10-2011 07:28 AM)Tea Lady Wrote:  

(27-10-2011 03:24 AM)A Cousin Wrote:  Well! Peter Firth said it was a 6-act Greek tragedy and I’ll be diddly-dog-damned if they gave us a 6-act Greek tragedy!

As soon as I read that post I thought, fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell the writings of A Cousin...

So did I! Although I don't pretend to understand it!!

Hee. It was the "diddly-dog-damned" that gave me away, wasn't it?

And Naivety, I don't believe that for a second!

(27-10-2011 09:03 AM)Naivety Wrote:  On another note....Gavrik's speech of 10.5 'I have a tortoise in the garden...' turned out to be empty words. Turned out that his wife, and son etc was all based on a lie. Harry had none of those things but he did have the true (unresolved) love of a loyal woman. Who was the luckier man?

Good point. But I don't think they were empty words, per se. I thought it very interesting that, despite completely under-estimating Harry, by the time we get to 10.6 we realize that Iyla was being nothing more than completely forthright in that speech. He really did it for the love of Elena. But once he finds out how duplicitous she has been, he follows through and kills her with his own hands. It is quite a moment b/c she knows exactly what is coming, there is not one iota of surprise in her eyes. Both Harry and Ilya lose the woman they love pretty much by their own mistake, the mistake of completely underestimating Elena.

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(27-10-2011 12:45 PM)Ceridwyn2 Wrote:  I'm a nurse by profession, and a fan fiction writer for fun.

OK then you are good person to ask. Ruth's cold face means internal bleeding, correct? Or does it mean cardiac arrest? I did not get the sense that it was part of the collapsing lung that was not life threatening in itself. Rather that it was something in addition to the collapsing lung?

[tammy1]

while I agree that Harry and Ruth between the sheets would have been wrong, a few more kisses would have been on spot. Also, the writers could have started a relationship there without showing us the mechanism - dates, or even a wedding - but something implied, like Harry making Ruth a cup of tea in the morning, or both of them comming to work in the same car.

[nimax1]

(27-10-2011 07:43 PM)tammy1 Wrote:  while I agree that Harry and Ruth between the sheets would have been wrong, a few more kisses would have been on spot. Also, the writers could have started a relationship there without showing us the mechanism - dates, or even a wedding - but something implied, like Harry making Ruth a cup of tea in the morning, or both of them comming to work in the same car.

Except for the kissing here or there (which would have been nice) it seemed that all of Series 10 hinted at something quite different about their relationship from what had existed before 9.8 and the months between that and the end of the inquiry. There's not as much flirting as there is "couple-ness" - at least that is what I saw. I think it is way more than best friend, confidante, etc. (although it is certainly that). One doesn't give away a state secret and maybe one's career, title, life, lightly. I think the appearance of Elena creates tensions and an estrangement because the relationship is so new but how more clear (in their own muddy way) could the conversation in the car about the difference between love and guilt be; the conversation on the bench at the end of Episode 5; the reference to the proposal of marriage. These are not just best buds. They're definitely together in my mind; they just don't quite know how to deal with it now that they are in the whole Gavrik mess and unfortunately we get the tragic results. That is what I see, but I guess others see different stuff.

[tammy1]

(27-10-2011 07:56 PM)nimax1 Wrote:  

(27-10-2011 07:43 PM)tammy1 Wrote:  while I agree that Harry and Ruth between the sheets would have been wrong, a few more kisses would have been on spot. Also, the writers could have started a relationship there without showing us the mechanism - dates, or even a wedding - but something implied, like Harry making Ruth a cup of tea in the morning, or both of them comming to work in the same car.

Except for the kissing here or there (which would have been nice) it seemed that all of Series 10 hinted at something quite different about their relationship from what had existed before 9.8 and the months between that and the end of the inquiry. There's not as much flirting as there is "couple-ness" - at least that is what I saw. I think it is way more than best friend, confidante, etc. (although it is certainly that). One doesn't give away a state secret and maybe one's career, title, life, lightly. I think the appearance of Elena creates tensions and an estrangement because the relationship is so new but how more clear (in their own muddy way) could the conversation in the car about the difference between love and guilt be; the conversation on the bench at the end of Episode 5; the reference to the proposal of marriage. These are not just best buds. They're definitely together in my mind; they just don't quite know how to deal with it now that they are in the whole Gavrik mess and unfortunately we get the tragic results. That is what I see, but I guess others see different stuff.

I see it exactly as you do. In fact, at the beginning of ep.1 I was convinced they got together, they seemed so relaxed, even happy.

[Tea Lady]

(27-10-2011 01:56 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  OK then you are good person to ask. Ruth's cold face means internal bleeding, correct? Or does it mean cardiac arrest? I did not get the sense that it was part of the collapsing lung that was not life threatening in itself. Rather that it was something in addition to the collapsing lung?

Mr TL says it's what happens when you suffer major trauma. All your blood rushes to your core and the organs there. Your extremities start to suffer from blood loss.

I was trying to figure out why Harry didn't try and push Ruth away more when Sasha arrived. I don't think they could see the shard of glass in Sasha's hand though. Maybe if Harry had seen it earlier...

[Nitrus]

I wondered this as well TL, both of their efforts to try and calm the situation down were a bit tame. They did the standard "I'm Spartacus" routine and then for some reason Ruth just walked forward, I thought originally this was to protect Harry but he was a few yards away and had already demonstrated his ability to use hand-hand combat to disarm Sasha.

[Betty]

I've decided I'm going to ask Peter Firth and Nicola Walker if there was anything extra there at the beginning of season 10. I don't know how I'll do this--I don't live in the U.K. and I'm scared of flying, so I won't be standing at any theater doors like some of you lucky ones. I just know that it would make me feel better if either of one of them (or perhaps a writer) said "yes".

[Nitrus]

What do you mean if there was anything there at the beginning?

[liana]

(27-10-2011 09:08 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  I wondered this as well TL, both of their efforts to try and calm the situation down were a bit tame. They did the standard "I'm Spartacus" routine and then for some reason Ruth just walked forward, I thought originally this was to protect Harry but he was a few yards away and had already demonstrated his ability to use hand-hand combat to disarm Sasha.

I think it's just a weak point in the story to be honest - Ruth needed to die for the final tragic end and thus she did, in a slightly contrived fashion. They could have made Sasha seem a bit more like he was going to try and kill Harry... I think this is part of the problem that some people have with Ruth's death - it does feel a little shoehorned in in some senses - it wasn't essential to resolving the 'threat of the week' or showing us the lengths that terrorists will go to or valiantly trying to save innocent people (as has been the case with most of the other characters who have died, or at least as far as I can remember), even if it was necessary for the message they wanted to get across in the ending.

[Gillymac]

The only thing that you can take as gospel as having happened in the spooks universe is what you see on the screen in front of you and the words you hear spoken by the actors playing the characters.

That is how scripted drama works.

Good ones, like spooks, strike triggers in the minds of the viewer which in turn fuel your imagination, makes you give a damn and keeps you tuning in each week (which is the whole point - to hook you) - but here's the rub -what you feel, think, imagine, want or wish for those characters doesn't come into it I'm afraid, because ultimately simply projecting your own wishes onto characters, doesn't make them behave the way you want them to. Just because it's in your head, doesn't make it so.

So I say again. Ruth and Harry were never in a romantic relationship with each other, regardless of what they have done for each other over the years and their obvious closeness. It is a line they never cross. That is why Ruth's death is so tragic. It is the line they are about to step over together when fate stops them, in the person of Sasha.

Ep.1 - We join Harry facing possible dismissal from his life's career. We do not know, and will never know, how long his period of administrative leave was, nor are we told what he did during this time (except that he even considered gardening). Ruth (lets call her his BFF + something that was never said) jollys him along through this, she keeps the chat light and upbeat. In other words, she does what I would hope any of our own friends would do for us in the same circumstances, she is there for him and supports him.