The West Wing

[Silktie]

Aww, Jed and Abby made it onto a list of Great Tv and Film Couples:

http://www.zap2it.com/news/pictures/zap-...y?index=13

[Silktie]

I was discussing the Bartlet MS storyline with someone recently, and wondered what other people thought about it. Was Bartlet wrong to conceal the illness from the public? Or is he entitled to keep medical issues private? After all, in the US there is no law that states candidates must disclose medical conditions, and you are not required to do so when applying for other jobs, as far as I know.

[Nitrus]

On the one hand, he was under on obligation to divulge the information and so he didn't deserve the stick he got for it. On the other hand, MS is something which can seriously affect his ability to do his job and it can affect decisions he makes when under pressure which could have terrible consequences.

However he is surrounded by people who he trusts to steer him in the right direction so that should help him not let the MS get in the way. It's a tough one.

I think on balance I would say that if Abi hadn't practised medicine on him illegally and hadn't lied on Zoey's college form then everything would have been fine, or at least much better than what did happen.

[Silktie]

You make good points. But is it not a tad hypocritical to expect people to trust you enough to make the right decisions for them as President, but then not trust them with the information that you have this illness?

I always thought that even though Bartlet might not have done anything legally wrong, it was still morally wrong.

[Nitrus]

The government doesn't trust us with a wealth of information and we still trust them to do their jobs (most of the time).

I genuinely believe that his MS would not affect his ability to be a strong leader for the time he was in officer.

P.S I have only seen up to S5E15, so no spoilers and my knowledge only extends that far into the show.

[JHyde]

I'm with Silktie on this one - I think it was wrong. Wrong not to tell his staff and wrong not to tell the people he was asking to vote for him.

And he knows it; it is why he accepts the censure in S3. That's some really good writing, one of the reasons that season 3 is the best overall, in my opinion.

Would I have still voted for him? Without a doubt. But I think his staff and his voters had the right to feel betrayed.

I'm planning to duck into a bookshop sometime this weekend and read Rob Lowe's autobiography chapters dealing with WW. Also planning to come back here and talk about them.

Nitrus, I'm so glad you've joined this thread. I love it when new people discover this show years after the fact. It's hard to believe this show was at its peak some 10 years ago when I was at and then finishing school.

[Silktie]

Even though I think it was wrong of him to keep it secret, he did have good reasons. The biggest probably being that there is such ignorance about MS that it would have put many people off voting for him. Still, I don't think it fair that he unilaterally decided that his voters weren't smart enough to realise that he could still do a terrific job, even with the MS.

Wasn't there some story behind Rob Lowe leaving the show? If so, can anyone fill me in, I seem to have missed it.

[JHyde]

The story goes that Lowe wasn't happy about his place or his paycheck within the show. When he came on board he was the second biggest star on the cast, after Sheen. But the show quickly became an ensemble piece and Sam wasn't the main protagonist any more.

The brief clip of Oprah I saw (which I found online) had Lowe talking about his issues, which was that basically everyone else got a pay rise and he didn't. Admittedly that's mostly a network thing, but I think there was some grudge holding against Sorkin there too, as he would have significant input as to who got what.

I do think it was a grudge that he put aside by the time he was in the 'A Few Good Men' revival in 2005 in London but he seems to have dredged it up again with his autobiography.

I'm going to read what he says before saying anything else.

[JHyde]

So I've been doing a WW re-watch over the break and it really does still play so well. Season 5 cops a bad rap but there is a lot of stuff in that season that I love. I am part way through season 6 and I still adore the MS episode in China storyline, magnificent writing and really good stuff for Sheen. It's genuinely moving too. The Bartlet character is such a work in progress throughout the show, he is often the most annoying character but also the most believable, in many ways. I also love how the season slips from that into the campaign storylines and suspect that season 7 will play every bit as well as I remember. It helps that they got hold of Smits and Alda those final two years. And Lily Tomlin is a goddess. Apparently she wrote to Sorkin and requested a role on the show because she loved it so much.

'Bartlet for America' in season 3 remains my favourite Christmas episode but I also love 'O Holy Night' in season 4, especially how it ends with images of everyone heading into their respective Christmases, mostly in very lonely circumstances.

I have never been the biggest fan of season 1 (except for the excellent 'He Shall, From Time To Time' and 'Celestial Navigation') but something that did interest me this time around was how well the Hoynes/Bartlet friction plays. One of the more subtle but intriguing sub plots of the first 3 seasons. I loved what they did with the Hoynes character, both Sorkin and the ones who came after, just really good stuff.

I know a lot of people hate Abby and Amy Gardner. Abby's great and was such a great balance to the Jed character and she's tough but at the same time they're a team. I don't understand people who don't like Abby. Amy plays a lot more harshly and there are times I want to slap her around too. But the fact remains that women like that are the reason that the rest of us have certain rights that we didn't have 50 years ago. Yes, sometimes she picks the wrong fights. But I am glad there are people like her out there, in fiction and in reality. And the character does play better on re-watching, I think.

[Beatriz]

I'm sooooooooooooo late to the party and probably nobody will answer but I really don't care.

I finished yesterday this wonderful series and now I feel I need to start watching it again, I don't want to leave my friends at the White House. Apart from being very well written (except a few episodes, but that happens in all series) and acted, if you're not American you learn a lot about how politics work there, that's very interesting.

SPOILERS AHEAD!

My favourite character is CJ no question there, I want to be her, she's a strong woman, funny, a true friend and very good at her job. I also like Toby and Bartlet and Leo (I didn't like him in a few episodes but I like him anyway). I love the relationship between Toby and CJ, and I like that Bartlet sees Claudia Jean (I love when he calls her that) as a daughter, in a good way. I love Mrs Landinham and Debbie!!!

I'm surprised to read that Abby is not very liked, I like her, I think it's the perfect match for Bartlet, she may be a bit annoying sometimes, but I like her, she shapes him as well as he shapes him.

I don't like Will Bailey, much although he improves a bit, and Donna, I found her annoying, although she gets better in later seasons.

As favourite scenes, the ones mentioned:
- Bartlet talking to god in Latin.
- I liked how they tried to force peace between Palestine and Israel.
- Most CJ and Danny's, I love this couple, one of my favourites of all time (Harry and Ruth are there, too) I'm a fan of Gail and every scene she's in it There are a lot of funny scenes between them and I love the scenes at the restaurant, falling of a cliff That reminded me the scene when Bartlet asks Leo to jump of a cliff to be his Chief of Staff and then CJ.
- Of course, I love when CJ goes to see Toby in 'Institutional memory' and then she goes to Danny's. Yes, I'm a shipper.
- Despite I love CJ and Danny, I also loved CJ and Simon, it was so sad when he was killed, and I love the scene when he teaches her to fire, so funny!

One more thing, and I stop, in season 6, when Josh leaves to help Santos with his campain I wasn't very happy, but then I began to like it. It wasn't that bad.

EDITED - I just wanted to add that I loved seeing a lot of familiar faces through all the 7 seasons, a lot of actors that now have a significant role in current series, appeared in this show.