Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]

[Nitrus]

Tom reveals his true self to Ellie, Peter Sulter causes trouble, Danny gets busted for credit fraud, Harry gets VERY angry, Zoe discovers Tessa's little earner on the side and of course, Jools Siviter enters the fray!

Go.

[YourFutureMuse]

This is the only one I have watched on the rewatch and I only had time for one this week so I picked this one as it was the one I remembered the least out or series 1.

I didn't like Harry in this ep, I think his character develops much better in the later series. Like when he said to Danny something like 'what else do you want my tongue down your throat' I just cringed lol

I thought that Ellie took the news about Tom surprisingly well... I liked the bit when she was replaying all the times in her head like when she said 'i love you matthew' because I think that would be the wierdest part of it all.. not knowing his real name and falling in love with a false name if that makes any sense lol

The Zoe Tessa thing I thought was the best thing about this episode... That Zoe is probably the most moral person on the team and at first she took the money and kept quiet. I also liked the tension at the flat between Zoe and Danny when she got back. ( I also got excited that Zoe had the same laundry basket as me hahaha )

The thing I didn't like was the part when Danny was training the new people. They just seemed wierd to me haha and poorly acted. Like 'fly me away danny' - who would say that, seriously?! Another cringe moment for me haha

Oh I haven't even talked about the main storyline yet.. I will end my babble soon haha. I liked that between Tom and Peter the roles were kind of reversed, like he recruited Tom and now Tom was running him.

When Danny and Zoe were doing surveillance at the protest, I thought it was telling about Danny's character that he put all the responsibilty on to Zoe, a little cowardly.

I will stop now aha hope this makes some kind of sense

[Tea Lady]

I had not seen this episode before so really enjoyed a new Spooks experience with my weetabix this morning.

I have to disagree with YFM, I thought Harry was really good in this episode. The lines PF had, really gave him a chance to show Harry off. Harry was also quite central to the main story line which we havnt really seen yet this series. The tongue down your throat comment really scared me. You really wouldnt want Harry breathing down your neck like that (yes I know I would, but I am talking in general terms here.) I also loved the Tessa comment "career, career Tessa," that was so funny and Tessa just looked at him like he was mad! Also the "I will brief you on anything you havnt already learnt in the ladies" and "East Anglia is the opposite side of the Country to Wales" to Jools, who again looked at Harry like he was mad, were classics.

I loved Jools as a character. A proper posh knob. I hope he is in next weeks episode which again I have not seen. I thought Zoe was a little stupid in taking the money home. Even if she really needed the cash, could she really trust Tessa not to turn her in, if she herself got found out? Of course Tessa would.

I thought Peter Salter was quite difficult to follow. I really wasnt quite sure what was wrong with him to make him go over to the dark side. Also why kill himself? Perhaps he had nothing, no job, no family, no girl. There was no point to life anymore.

[YourFutureMuse]

Oh yeah I did enjoy the 'career, career' line aha I had forgot about that

I don't really know why peter would work with those people, it was never really gone into. I know he loved that girl but still..

[Silktie]

Another very good episode for me. I think Peter Salter had become disillusioned with the job, which is why he was so seduced by the anarchists. They did something they believed in, whereas he no longer believed the country was worth saving and thus no longer believed in the job he was doing. I thought the moment in the Underground when Salter says there has to be an end to obedience to the state was well acted - that moment when Tom realised the guy was cracking. I don't understand why Tom allowed him to leave after that, though. The chances that he would do a runner was pretty big.

Harry was pretty funny this episode, his scenes with Jools were great. Also liked the scene where Zoe and Danny report back, they looked like schoolchildren being scolded in the Headmaster's office in that scene. Does Harry spy on his own officers, as he seems to know everything about them, like Danny's little problem with the credit cards? Harry losing his temper and not taking any crap from any of his officers was great. Loved him yelling at Danny to get out of his office, and later shutting Tessa up before she could protest about him sending Zoe to meet her source. And he's apparently well read too, as he recognised the quote from Shakespeare that Salter used to seduce the girl.

So now we know how Tessa can afford that swanky flat we saw in 1.3! This practice of creating ghost sources and pocketing their money is apparently a big problem in intelligence services, so it's great to see it being addressed in Spooks. Not sure why Zoe didn't immediately go to Harry about this, I hope they explain this in the episodes to come.

I thought Tom handled his revelation to Ellie extremely poorly. He was so cold and distant, a little more empathy towards her would have made it a lot easier.

[HellsBells]

I think Ellie's reaction to Tom's job was terrible. If I found out my partner was a member of the secret services I would be very proud. She behaved awfully towards him. And then to tell Maisie the truth about Tom that was just crazy. Tell a child of that age and the first thing they will do is tell everyone in their class ! Why not just carry on with calling Tom Matthew, it would not matter to Maisie, and then tell her the truth when she was old enough to understand.

[YourFutureMuse]

I wouldn't be proud I don't think lol, well maybe eventually but it certainly wouldn't be my first thought when I had discovered I had been lied to. I think Ellie's reaction was natural after all thee whole security services thing is a wholely alien prospect to her and when Tom was talking so clinically about it like her being vetted and things.

As for Maisie, it would have been difficult not to tell her, if they had decided to wait until she was older, then she would have got close to him as a sort of father figure, only to discover it was all a lie... either way there would be problems. I don't know how else Tom could have explained to her why he wasn't Matthew anymore without completely losing her trust and I can't imagine Ellie wanting to go on lying to her own child. I don't think Maisie would have told her class, if she thought it was a special secret and perhaps if she did they would never believe her haha, I remember telling my friends my dad was a premiership footballer lol

[HellsBells]

But I think Ellie knew she was being lied to, or at least being kept in the dark about something, at least it wasn't another woman which must have been going thorough her mind. Her first thought was he might be a gangster when she saw the bullet wound, surely finding out that he worked for the government would be a relief.

[femaleBertieWooster]

(18-01-2010 02:48 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  I think Ellie's reaction to Tom's job was terrible. If I found out my partner was a member of the secret services I would be very proud. She behaved awfully towards him. And then to tell Maisie the truth about Tom that was just crazy. Tell a child of that age and the first thing they will do is tell everyone in their class ! Why not just carry on with calling Tom Matthew, it would not matter to Maisie, and then tell her the truth when she was old enough to understand.

I completely agree. I'd be proud but then probably break up with him. Wouldn't want to always go psycho when the phone rings, worried whether he was dead or not. The only positive thing would be that if you knew there was a crisis situation, you wouldn't need to get dinner ready.

Absolutely nuts to tell the kid. Did anyone see the news story (USA) called "balloon boy" a month or so ago? The kid was 6 (can't remember how old Maisie was) and spilled the beans on the national news.

[lwhite53]

Interesting to have back-to-back eps involving officers/ex-officers going rogue, and by two different writers. Hard to imagine why?

Salter was less likeable, imo, than Marks and he seemed weaker than Marks -- he was just tired of it all because "No one believes in anything anymore." It seemed to me as if he was trying to create some excitement for himself, almost as if he was playing a game: "I am the thing the security service fears the most. The guy who goes through Traitor's Gate willingly and embraces everything he's been trained to destroy." He appears to love Andrea but I think that's all part of his effort to try and feel something, anything, again. And when he realizes that he's failed, he hangs himself. Would have been better off going out and buying a red sports car.

I liked the juxtaposition of Tom telling Ellie he's a spy with Peter telling Andrea he's not who she thought he was -- nice bit of parallel writing.

The great Tom reveal . . . and he's surprisingly uninvolved in it all! Very detached and unemotional, matter of fact, refusing to help her deal with what he's said. Almost dissociative. Then he gets angry with her because she needs more info than he's willing to give -- very strange reaction. Almost as if he's anticipating her leaving and he's separating emotionally before she drops the bomb.

Ellie: Everything flows from "Can I trust you"? -- great line!!!

LOVED Jools Siviter -- great character, well acted by Hugh Laurie, comic relief that comes with a dangerous, ruthless edge. And so utterly British, of a certain class -- just a wonderful addition and a great foil to Harry.

The patter between Zoe and Danny in the car while on stakeout was proceless -- Earl gray tea bags and marriage, etc.

Zoe and Tessa and the phantom agents -- how do they work together now? Zoe has something on Tessa -- can she/will she act on it? Will she tell Harry? Will she join Tessa and wind up with a flat she can't really afford? Who's got the upper hand in the relationship now?

I really liked Harry in this ep -- we saw him angry, suspicious, commanding, dangerous and uncertain. Also, we saw him covering for one of his officers, which may be why they all willingly put up with his bullshit! Got a much better idea of H and the many facets of that character.

I loved H's line "What do you want, my tongue down your throat?" so much I'm gonna' add it to my sig.