Series 9 Episode 5 Discussion

[lwhite53]

We won't know who the "ultimate betrayer" is until ep8 (and probably not until late in that ep). The spooks way is to throw in clues throughout the series and to save the real zinger for the last ep, with a cliffhanger for s10e1! Blake was a betrayer but they wouldn't have blown it all in the first ep.

[A Cousin]

(20-10-2010 08:24 AM)KoiGal Wrote:  It makes sense that Ruth is the ultimate betrayer. It would certainly be risky married to the head of service, being a double agent and all.

Yes, but playing devil's advocate for a moment, it would also be the perfect cover. The best place to hide is in plain view. If she were the betrayer she wouldn't give a rat's patootie about how the fall out would affect Harry.

[watchstrap]

(20-10-2010 01:17 PM)Hunted Wrote:  I'm with Tea Lady here. I can't see in what circumstances Ruth could be a or is 'the ultimate betrayer'. In what way would she betray the team, and why would she do this? It would be completely out of character for her, and everything we have seen in Series 9 so far.

Spoiler: show

We know from the teasers and Ian Wylie's blog in the upcoming episode 7 that they are on the grid trying to twart a hacker. In episode 7 she is attacked while trying to assist a person who is trying to report a covert operation to M15. Which leaves episode 8 which we don't yet know about. That doesn't leave alot of time for her to scheme up something bad against the team?

Agreed, agreed.

Spoiler: show

The Albany/Lucas thing is moving quite slowly unlike last season when Nightingale was initially mentioned at the end of E2 and then seemed woven into most of the stories of the week (too contrived IMO). It seems that in E7 she gets beaten to a pulp maybe, therefore leaving E8?

Nah, it was meant to be Blake.

Once again, this episode was first class. I am enjoying this series so much that I don't really mind the outcome (within reason), I will be able to live with it whatever is thrown at me. The quality of everything is just so on the money. Each weeks story just stands up on its own.

Oh and I loved the new tie (what do you mean 'whos tie?') this ep, and that lovely coat and pouting and haaaaaaaaaaaaaaands!!!!!!!!!!!

[Beatriz]

Please, try to keep this thread to episode 5 discussion, I know sometimes is difficult. You can speculate and write your own theories on the Series 9 Rumours & Speculation thread.

[femaleBertieWooster]

(20-10-2010 03:08 PM)watchstrap Wrote:  Once again, this episode was first class. I am enjoying this series so much that I don't really mind the outcome (within reason), I will be able to live with it whatever is thrown at me. The quality of everything is just so on the money. Each weeks story just stands up on its own.

Completely agree but next week I'm going to discipline myself to not read in the episode thread until I see the episode. I knew everything that was going to happen and it actually kept me from noticing things and getting my own point of view. In other words, I have zip comment except what watchstrap said.

----------------------------------edit to add

(20-10-2010 12:07 PM)Jericho Wrote:  I think the dual storyline of Lucas(John) and the Iain Glen character, Vaughn, has a lot of mileage to run and Vaughn may be the next Spook after the shaming of Lucas, or am I talking a lot of tosh?
I really can't wait for the next episode.......

........and yes I know, I really should get out more!

Iain Glen would be a nice addition to the team, however they are already looking like the prettiest team ever and Glen would be the last straw. (Does anyone know if RA has some big roles coming up. That's always a good predictor of who might be leaving.)

[theeyeshaveit]

I have removed this in case it is spoilerish and taken it to the speculation thread.

Apologies again - I lost the comment I was transferring (did a ctrl C copy over it) and I can't remember it to write again. It was just a preamble to the question discussed in post #70 after this.

[BravoNine]

(20-10-2010 09:14 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  Iain Glen would be a nice addition to the team, however they are already looking like the prettiest team ever and Glen would be the last straw. (Does anyone know if RA has some big roles coming up. That's always a good predictor of who might be leaving.)

Hmmm I can't see Vaughn joining the team if he's the one blackmailing Lucas, Harry would never allow someone like that one his team, unless Vaughn turns out to be some amazing good guy, which at this point I cannot see.

As for RA, there was only talk about how if he was going to film in Series 10, how would it work with his schedule for Strike Back. That could be the only sign that RA may not return, but schedules can be worked out so who knows. I'm praying that Lucas is safe.

(21-10-2010 02:27 AM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  Do you think Lucas' past would see Harry likely to throw Lucas out of MI5, charge Lucas with something and see him get sent to prison. or would he be more likely to let it go?

It will all depend on how Lucas's storyline ends this series and what else he is gonna do and how the confrontation with Harry will turn out to be. So right now at this point, nothing is sure, we can only speculate.

This should probably be taken to the Rumors and Speculations Thread.

[JHyde]

Lots of things I liked about this episode. I didn't buy the 'keeping Beth alive' argument but apart from that....

I loved that the President was never referred to by name. I think it helped us remember every time they used it just how important it is to have someone worthy of the office in there. And not just for talks like the ones being held. Plus - it was a really great code name. (Lots of good ones this season!) It also helped set it apart from 2.6 when Presidents Bush and Putin were referred to by name, with footage.

Ruth's argument to the journalist was a terrific bit of writing and beautifully in character. Dana was a bad person or a bad journalist for wanting to tell all about it - there are plenty of things that SHOULD be in the open. But Ruth's monologue was succinct and very convincing. I am once again grateful that Ruth's character is being treated with such respect this season.

I loved getting more Dimitri. I found it funny that thanks to Anna we found out more about him than we have since episode 1! He has great integrity as a character and is very likeable. I also loved seeing him and Beth get boxed with identities, that felt very vintage Spooks to me.

The connection between Levi and Harry was the stand out of this episode. I loved Harry seeing much of himself reflected in the life of this man, who also happens to know Harry by name and title and not by an alias. I'm sure it's already been dissected, how similar their stories are, and Harry certainly sees himself as being prematurely old in the same manner as Levi. The gentleman who played Levi was outstanding. I think Harry was disappointed that Levi left his job, not just for the obvious reasons but also for what it signalled, a defeatism to which his daughter succumbed.

Speaking of which - I thought Anna's defection was a little unbelievable, at least for the reasons given. The sight of Levi telling her that he was there was very affecting, yes, but I didn't buy the traitor. I also think the use of the 'triple bluff' has had its run this season, that's now several episodes in a row. They didn't need to give us the very heavy handed vignette of Anna and her insulin at the start, it said immediately how important it was! They should have just left it with Anna jabbing herself in the scene with Dimitri, much more subtle.

I enjoyed seeing Lucas is a more chiefly kind of role this episode. I still think they're leaving the Albany explanations too late in the season but we'll see.

We also had the first really sympathetic moment with the HS. Admittedly what he says is very similar to what Adam says in 3.10, but it was believable. Even the most stereotypical pollies usually have their roots in something admirable and this was a good choice for Towers' softer side. Although they then nicely undercut the moment by sending him back to his iPhone - that was neatly done.

Also very excited about next episode! The set up is terrific.

I'll be interested to see how well this episode plays on re-watching.

[JHyde]

Having read back on the thread, the only thing I'll add to my post is in response to picard's comment about Harry using the phrase 'leader of the free world'

When Harry uses such terms, it's usually with a grain of salt, almost as though he is mocking their very existence. I felt he did so here. I think at the same time he was prepared to use it with a degree of respect given the current occupant of the White House and the position that he holds internationally, as well as the very role he was coming to the UK to fulfil. Its usage here was quite appropriate.

[theeyeshaveit]

(21-10-2010 05:24 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(21-10-2010 02:27 AM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  Do you think Lucas' past would see Harry likely to throw Lucas out of MI5, charge Lucas with something and see him get sent to prison. or would he be more likely to let it go?

It will all depend on how Lucas's storyline ends this series and what else he is gonna do and how the confrontation with Harry will turn out to be. So right now at this point, nothing is sure, we can only speculate.

This should probably be taken to the Rumors and Speculations Thread.

Thanks - I know I will just have to wait.

Apologies, I was not using any future knowledge and I thought as I was just ruminating on what I have seen it, it should have been here. I shall remove the original post as I don't think there is anything spoilerish about this section we are discussing. Just an opinion.

I was thinking in terms of, if Lucas had confronted Harry with this when Vaughn first appeared on the scene.

I am just having trouble imagining anything Harry would have done to Lucas because of his past transgression being worse than what Lucas is currently going through and what he faces if he is found out for today's transgressions. From his own point of view, Lucas seems to be behaving opposite to his own interests, even if the only aim of what he is doing is to enable him to be with Maya.