Series 9 Episode 5 Discussion

[Tea Lady]

(19-10-2010 11:34 AM)picard1109 Wrote:  What made me laugh, actually, was the supposed locations and 'sight lines'. I'd love to know how someone can have a sight line from the roof of a building which looks at the OXO building (on the South Bank), so looking south...when the hotel's supposed to be in Mayfair. That's one heck of a circuitous route for that bullet to take!

Anyone know where the 'hotel' location was? Greenwich Maritime, perhaps? Some of the supposedly surrounding buildings looked like they were in Docklands to me...but then, I've not been to Mayfair recently and skyscrapers could have sprung up. LOL

Picard, this is towards the start of the episode where the terrorist chap is setting up his mini bombs to blow the glass out. Look familiar?

[HellsBells]

Loved this episode, even though I could tell Anna was going to be the baddie. Lucas was great at Section Chief, really in control. I was surprised that Harry wasn't on the Grid more but I guess Lucas had the situation in hand.
Why does the storyline about Lucas/John, Vaughan and Maya always feel that it is just tagged on the end of the episode ?
Also loved the fact that every episode, so far, has ended with an image of Lucas (when it goes black & white).

[FATBOY]

Liked tyme4t's post re Lucas as a sleeper (so good perhaps it should have a spoiler on it!). Yep fits nicely doesn't it. Also Lucas's time in jail - shades of the 'The Manchurian Candidate' perhaps?

[A Cousin]

Ummm...wow! Lots of great thoughts here. I will try to not repeat much.

Since I have never met a Spooks episode I have not liked on some level, I will not say categorically if I liked it or not. It held me but once again, the threat du jour felt faintly familiar.

The filming was unobtrusive, clean and concise. I liked the shot on top of the building with Lucas and the sniper. This series' filming feels like a blast form the past for me - in a good way. It lets the plot and character development shine through. I also think I recognized many of the locations. That glassed in office building that the sniper shoots through was very familiar. So was the alley way that Lucas was strangled in. Wasn't that where Ruth told Adam and Zaf that she sees no other alternative but to sacrifice herself in 5.5?

Plotwise, there are huge parallels being played out: Levi/Anna vs. Harry/Ruth, Harry vs. Lucas, Harry/Ruth vs Lucas/Maya, Dimitri vs. Anna to name a few.

The whole Lucas character thread is so separate from everything else, certainly intentionally, that something has to happen soon. I am not convinced that Maya doesn't know "Michael" is Vaughan just yet.

I too was wondering where the hell Harry was through most of this episode but on the other hand I really enjoyed watching the team work as a unit with Lucas at the head.

The lack of Harry in general was made up at the end when he quotes Kierkegaard to Lucas. As if Harry weren't sexy enough! I don't think that it is a mistake that the book Harry quotes from is The Sickness Unto Death. The title is faintly reminiscent of marriage vows: in sickness and in health, unto death do us part, etc etc etc. Lucas could use a little read because this book deals with the theme of "despair," the tension between recognition of the self and a higher purpose and an individuals struggle to live with themselves. Heady stuff. Which is why I like Spooks. Did anyone catch Harry saying to Lucas, "Important work today" and not his usual "Good work...."?

Better development for Dimitri but still not enough! I'll be ruminating on that later I am sure, because I like the character. And I bet Sophia Miles bagged her gym run the day they shot her escape scene. She got a thigh and an oblique workout. She missed her calling as a contortionist!

[BravoNine]

After this episode, I really really hope that Lucas won't die at the end of the series because Harry would have to bring in a new section chief if Lucas doesn't make it....Dimitri and Beth are good agents, but neither is ready to lead the way Lucas can......hopefully this is a sign that they will keep the team this time.....

And really, maybe we can just lock that alleyway and leave Lucas tied up there, at least he won't get into any more trouble! It would be contained!

[WhiteSwan]

(19-10-2010 03:30 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  After this episode, I really really hope that Lucas won't die at the end of the series because Harry would have to bring in a new section chief if Lucas doesn't make it....Dimitri and Beth are good agents, but neither is ready to lead the way Lucas can......hopefully this is a sign that they will keep the team this time.....

And really, maybe we can just lock that alleyway and leave Lucas tied up there, at least he won't get into any more trouble! It would be contained!

Oh yes, please!
At least someone should make sure he has no more contact with Maya! What is it about that woman that she manages to turn a capable, honest, courageous agent into a dishonest, weak and treacherous fool the moment he sets eyes on her?

[BravoNine]

(19-10-2010 03:49 PM)WhiteSwan Wrote:  

(19-10-2010 03:30 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  After this episode, I really really hope that Lucas won't die at the end of the series because Harry would have to bring in a new section chief if Lucas doesn't make it....Dimitri and Beth are good agents, but neither is ready to lead the way Lucas can......hopefully this is a sign that they will keep the team this time.....

And really, maybe we can just lock that alleyway and leave Lucas tied up there, at least he won't get into any more trouble! It would be contained!

Oh yes, please!
At least someone should make sure he has no more contact with Maya! What is it about that woman that she manages to turn a capable, honest, courageous agent into a dishonest, weak and treacherous fool the moment he sets eyes on her?

That's the million dollar question isn't it? One might have to check Lucas's brain functions because clearly something is not transmitting correctly....

Notice how what Harry quoted to Lucas seems to fit so well with Lucas's current situation, and it would seem that definitely touched a nerve with Lucas considering his subtle reaction to the words......one has to wonder if Harry knows something or not, is he hinting to Lucas something, I mean, come on! The man's not stupid! Surely he knows something is going on with Lucas! I know Harry's heart yearns to be close and to trust Lucas, but Harry's head clearly is firing on all cylinders and knows that something is going on.....oh dear battle of the heart and the mind....

Spoiler: show

We know Malcolm is coming back this series, and we've only got 3 more episodes for Malcolm to possibly come back to, surely it can't just be for Lucas's funeral, especially if Lucas is a traitor, there wouldn't be a funeral then. I am convinced that Malcolm/Lucas/Harry are running some operation on their own, maybe in the final episode after Lucas/Harry has their confrontation. I want to see my three boys going old-school on the baddies!

Lucas said that no one knew who Anna was turning into, that's a bit like himself, right now, no one knows who Lucas is slowly turning into......

And if the end product even surprised RA himself about his own character, it makes me worried just who they're gonna turn Lucas into....

I just can't see Lucas bad, and this episode shows how well he takes care of his people, making sure finding Beth is a priority and then giving advice to Dimitri, I just can't see the evil-side of him!!

AHHHHHHHHHHH! Lucas is giving more gray hairs, heart-attacks, and aneurysms than anyone I have ever met in my whole entire lifetime!!!! He is going to be the death of me!

[redlyn]

Highly enjoyable. Everyone got something to do. It was lovely to see Lucas getting to behave in the manner he should...it just sets up downfall to be greater. Aaaargh i can't bear it!! Can't wait till next week - the waiting is such sweet pain.

[lwhite53]

Loved this ep (as opposed to the last two) probably because of all the subtext -- Anna and Levi Cohen so focused on the safety of their country it destroys their relationship. Clearly a cautionary tale for Harry and Ruth. Also, the through line about the issues between father and daughter can't help but to have resonated with Harry -- poor chap had a lot to think about this ep.

Liked the relationship set up between Dimitri and Anna . . . and then his mis-reading her so badly. Really nice acting by Max Brown.

The little red boxes are gone!! Replaced by boring grey ones (a metaphor for lives lived in the shadows, maybe?) I was partial to those red boxes as they highlighted the whole "spy false identity " thing.

Harry and the HS are entertaining once again -- "Just checking out the new Home Office app . . . it's worth a download." Apparently, not to SHP! But the HS does get a little flustered when the fate of "the leader of the free world" is threatened on his watch. Take a chill pill, Mr Towers -- it's Sir Harry and his minions to the rescue. That's one death I doubt will ever happen on spooks.

I enjoyed the plot: an Israeli suckering a Syrian in an assassination attempt on a sitting American president, with a Lebanese trying to stop him -- the kind of triple bluff that spooks does so well. Also, and interestingly, the Palestinians had no part in any of it. A true-to-life commentary, I think, on what happens too often in the Middle East.

Ruth's spiel to the journo (I see pics, I read things, etc) harks back to H's "I sit in meetings . . ." speech to Ruth in 5.3, re a second date.

Loved that Ruth was the one who translates the Arabic from the notebook, not Tariq -- apparently wonder boy really was recruited only for his techie skills. Parallels nicely with Elwan's "The Arab will like dates, they think." Wonder if we'll ever hit a situation where Ruth's language skills will come up short?

Ruth, it seems, has also become the grid's op chief -- she's taken over all the briefing duties and runs all the ops. It's like they've split the section leader duties between she and Lucas.

Great H line to R: "Flick to the last page, Ruth." You can almost see her going through the steps in her head, making the connections and getting the answer.

Not terribly happy about the way the Lucas-John/Vaughan-Michael/Maya sub-plot is happening -- the pattern seems to be 55 mins of main plot action and then 2-3 mins of "what's happening to Lucas' love life this week." They're obviously dragging this story out until the end of the series, which I wouldn't mind if it wasn't so obvious. And what the hell happened to the Chinese snatch team with Lucas' pic (from last ep)? Surely they're still around somewhere.

The next part is total speculation, so I'll put it in spoiler tags.

Series 9.5 Spoiler: show

I had the terribly strong sense as I watched this ep that Ruth is being set up as "the ultimate betrayer." Some of the parallels between Ruth and Anna are striking: a life focused on keeping one's country safe; no real personal attachments, even to those who one should be close to; being sacrificed and left out in the wilderness; someone who's a part of the inner circle and trusted; one's entire being always caught up in the "mission."

I was really struck by Anna's lines to her father: "Don't pretend we did this together. We both want it. We both worked for it. There is no together." In some ways, this would seem to be the opposite of what R says to H: "We can't be more together than we are now," but is that really so? Was R really saying the same thing as Anna -- all we really have in common anymore is the mission? And then, Anna tried to scuttle it and lost herself "quietly in the world." Lucas and Harry's discussion about Anna could just as easily be about Ruth, who clearly isn't the same person in s9 as she was in s8.

Please shoot this down, as I am not at all happy at the prospect.

[Beatriz]

Just to clarify guys, information/comments/discussion about the trailer is/are considered as spoilers, so spoiler tags are needed.

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I liked the episode, I didn't see that Anna was the baddie until it was revealed Loved the turn in the end. I was also surprised by the limos with the flags, not very low profile...

This series seems to prone to deal with father-daughter relationships. This one, had a great impact in Harry, made him think about his own daughter and also the implications of 8.1, I agree.

I must admit I love the Spanish bits we get, this time were perfect!