Series 9 Episode 8 discussion

[HellsBells]

Okay, really disappointed by this episode. Where were the twists in the plot? Albany turned out to be as boring and uninteresting as Maya. I am surprised that everyone believes that Lucas is dead, he seemed to appear from nowhere behind Harry, could he not have also just as easily disappeared. I assumed Harry looked over the edge to see if Lucas had jumped.
Didn't like the Alec introduction, he was unnecessary to the story and had 'Lucas's replacement' practically stamped on his forehead.
For once the BBC tells as there is another series and in all the years I've watched Spooks I'm really not that bothered. If the writers can destroy Lucas's character so completely then no character on the Grid can be believed.

[harrbd]

Just wanted to say that I think this series has been brilliant - thanks to Kudos and the writers. We can nit pick but overall it has been great with fantastic acting as always. Even though I knew every spoiler the finale was still so tense and moving.

Thought that Harry had

Series 9 Spoiler: show

really mucked things up but should have had more faith !

In view of how things had gone I was happy with the ending (although not the PS !) Having said that I would have liked the final scene to be

Series 9 Spoiler: show

Ruth walking towards Harry on the roof.)

.

Liked how Maya

Series 9 Spoiler: show

did the right thing, saving Ruth as part of it. She had to die so that Lucas had nothing left to live for

Harry

Series 9 Spoiler: show

gave up his job and risked his life for Ruth but was ready to sacrifice himself to save the many at the tube station. I hope that Ruth can now sort herself out and move forwards with Harry.

Love Alex White. Harry needed him and gave him total trust. Hope he returns.

Lucas

Series 9 Spoiler: show

Jekyll and Hyde but the good came through at the end.

Hope the next series is as good

[blueeyes]

I too was disappointed with this episode . ..... ...think we'd been led up the garden path into believing tnat this was going to be the daddy of all episodes ....and it wasn't

[harrbd]

There was a woman's scream from below, car alarm going off and Harry looked over the edge so I think it can be assumed that Lucas is dead. He had nothing else to live for.

I thought Alec White was necessary as Harry needed his toughness, experience and impartiality. Harry had complete trust in him whereas I think he felt that Beth or Dimitri couldn't do what was needed.

[Kazters]

i loved the introduction of alex in a very old spooks fassion much the same way adam was introduced to take in rouge tom ;-) and he looks like he has the same wit as adam and ros which was very much missing in s9 because lucas wasnt strong enough to lead.

i loved this ep untill his death it felt to rushed.

can we remind kudos that it isnt spooks without harry?

i still think there is a problem with beth and dimitri in the fact that even tariq gets more lines than they do!

roll on s10

[Silktie]

I'm not sure what to think about this, really. I will say, that for the hour it was on, it had me gripped and chewing my nails. But after all was said and done it left me slightly dissatisfied. I'll leave my overall views on the season and the Lucas storyline for the other thread, and just concentrate on what happened in this episode for now.

So, to me, no real redemption for Lucas in the end. The fact that he still gave Albany to the Chinese after knowing what it was, and after Maya died and his supposed great reason for turning against his own was thus removed, is a huge mark against his name. So he didn't kill Harry in the end, so what, that doesn't make up for the rest of the stuff he did in this episode. Lucas is definitely dead, though, no question about that. Harry's reaction after looking over the edge says it all.

(08-11-2010 11:14 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  

(08-11-2010 10:40 PM)Logsie Wrote:  It could all have gone so differently. As soon as Harry realised Lucas was after Albany, why the hell didn't he tell him it was a failed project? He could have pulled Lucas back from the brink, possibly. It cut me to the bone when Harry asked Lucas what happened in Dakar and he replied that Vaughn gave him a chance to be something, to make a difference; Harry responded by saying "I wish you'd met me first" and Lucas said "So do I"

I think a part of me will never forgive Harry for letting this continue when he had a chance to change things. He could have told Lucas to truth about Albany, things could have changed, Lucas could have lived. I don't think I will ever forgive him for that.

Do you honestly think that would have changed anything? I don't see any way in which Lucas would have believed Harry was telling him the truth. Lucas suspected Harry of playing him the whole time, it would have been the same had Harry told him that Albany doesn't work, and the outcome would have been the same. Besides, Albany was the only card Harry had to play to lure the very unstable Lucas into a trap.

I bloody loved Ruth in this, and the performance from NW was absolutely outstanding. Her attempts to reason with Lucas were great, and how she kept using the name Lucas as often as possible. I'm still not sure where her head's at with regard to Harry, though. I think her tears at the end were a combination of grief for Lucas, delayed shock at her own ordeal and perhaps relief that Harry was alive after all.

Harry broke my heart in this episode. Loved how he knew the moment Beth said that it wasn't Lucas they had shot, that Lucas would go after Ruth. Once again his basic humanity came through as well, as Alec nailed it when he accused Harry of knowing that Lucas had lied to him about what happened in Dakar, but that he'd still let him go because on some level he was still hoping to save Lucas. But again, that humanity came back to bite him, as it nearly cost Ruth's life, and later almost cost his own. The call to his daughter brought a tear to my eye, I'll admit.

So did the postscript - very symbolic with Harry all alone in the dark, being told that the risk he took to save Ruth will probably cost him his life's work and his reputation, and that he doesn't even have Ruth at his side to show for it. It looked like Harry wiped away a tear after that phone call with the HS ended, which made me sniffle too. At least he has the HS in his corner on this one, for what it's worth.

I like Alec well enough, but don't think we've seen enough of him to judge whether he will be a suitable replacement as Section Chief. Dimitri is coming into his own nicely, but Beth is a little one-note for my liking. That has more to do with the performance than the character, though. Hopefully she'll get more to do in season 10 and the performance will improve as a result.

But yay for season 10 definitely being commissioned!

[Tomatzso]

Great stuff - acting and storyline - can't see how this was disappointing.

Loved the nod to a Romeo and Juliet finale for Harry and wife to be (??) :-).

Perhaps have not seen enough of prior episodes to be so upset about Lucas North's character assassination - being someone else is what spooks are supposed to be good at after all.

[Hunted]

Thought it was a good finale, though the Lucas-Maya car scene did threaten to turn it a bit soap-opera'ish .
Avoiding spoilers for the last couple of weeks added to my enjoyment of it. When Harry took the Albany case in the church and set off the gas to stun Dimitri and Beth, I really had a 'WTF' moment! Please tell me he isn't a bad 'un, and this is the horrible plot twist they'd threatened to do! Before calming down & realising he was going solo to save Ruth's life. She was completely justified in saying to him after her rescue that he was wrong to save her given what Albany was (or she thought it was).
One question, was Harry sound wired up on that roof with Lucas? I was presuming Tariq and Ruth were listening in, hence Ruth's tears in reaction to what had happened, a combination of the relief that Harry is alive, finally breaking down after holding up well after 2 kidnappings, and possibly the knowledge that he did save her knowing that Albany could not be used to kill people. And hence, allowing her to love him?
The whole 'arc' about Lucas in this series was a genius idea - i.e. a person acting out a lie for 15 years; and very convincingly played by RA. I don't think it spoiled a good character for the two previous seasons. He said it himself; I was bad before M-15. It allows us to look at that Lucas now in a whole different light. It’s time to get out the season 7 & 8 box-sets over the Christmas holidays from work to see if hints in a back-story can be picked out. The only let-down about it was the whole Maya thing, and Lucas/John's involvement with yet another woman. Was dropping his mask all for her? It could have been so much better if it was for something else - maybe money or power. What he did in Dakar was despicable, and there could never be redemption for that. He didn't jump off the roof for the sake of the team; he had no other way out for himself, and he did it out of self-pity and the desire to end it all. Sorry if that offends anyone. I thought Harry was if anything too soft with him at the end, though he played it well to prevent himself being shot!
I like Alec White but I doubt he'll be Season 10's section chief. Please for Season 10 good plotlines, & good consistent writing. Maybe Kudo’s will bring back in their best writers if it’s the final season.

[Elphie]

I thought this episode was really good and we finally got some answers. I'm rather disappointed that Malcolm wasn't in this episode and wasn't there to say that Albany was 'one sweet weapon'!

I knew Lucas was going to go off the top of that building but I thought that it was going to happen by him losing his footing when he went to shoot Harry. I'm glad that Harry is still alive. Even though Lucas was a bad man I couldn't help but scream a little into my pillow when he stepped off that building.

Now we know that S10 is going to be about pulling Harry's life apart and with Lucas gone, Does this mean that we are going to see Tom take over the grid and lead the kiddiwinks? Let's face it they aren't ready to lead themselves.

I'm glad that Ruth is still alive and couldn't help but shout at the telly when Lucas injected her with whatever it was and I didn't think that Harry was going to get to her in time.

So this is what I think is going to happen in S10; In the last episode, Harry is going to turn around and say that he has had enough after everyone he has lost and that he has regrets but he has had enough. He then proposes to Ruth again and she says Yes and they walk off into the sunset holding hands and then it goes black and white and tah-dah its the end. Will I get that happy ending??

[George]

Re: S10

Actually, in view of the potential direction of next season, the new guy coming from IA makes sense, although not as Section Chief...

Re: plotholes

whilst being bit annoyed by this season ones, let's not forget

Series 7.8 Spoiler: show

example: distances between London Bridge and Grovesnor Sq makes impossible the return trip to collect the bomb, unless using helicopter

Among the other things:

the bomb, nice touch

Series 7.8, 9.8 Spoiler: show

London Bridge station, the same place of the final scenes of season 7