[spoilers] Harry and Ruth: Back With A Vengeance?

[Naivety]

(18-10-2011 12:48 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  Frankly, I do not know why I am still speculating after reading the TV guide comments of PF. It is so disheartening and so contrary to what you are so beautifully writing about them: In a sense, what we saw in this episode, is the two of them coming to grips with each other's faults and mistakes, and realising it doesn't change how they feel about each other.

I just don't get it. I can only hope that PF was teasing us.

After reading the Radio Times review, I am even ready to believe that

Series 10 Spoiler: show

Ruth is a traitor and she is going to kill Harry. It's so pathetic or should I say I am so pathetic for getting so involved in Spooks. Let's hope that I can laugh at the jokes.

1. Ruth is not a traitor. She is just as patriotic as Harry is, and will not betray Britain.

2. I think Peter is being a naughty boy and keeping us speculating. It's the writers (and Kudos) who decide whether Harry and Ruth get together.

Spoiler: show

I am trying to keep the faith and follow Ian Wylie's blog. He is a genuine Spooks fan, and an H/R shipper. If he is happy with episode 6 then I think I will be.

[beatrice4ruth]

I love Ruth. In my heart I know that she cannot be a traitor. She would rather die than betray her country.

Series 10 Spoiler: show

If Harry turned out to be a traitor (I really hope not), I think that she would never forgive him and she would leave him.

It shows you how unsettling these magazine previews can be if one starts speculating in such a way. Some smart fans have a point. Do not read or watch any spoilers, magazines or trailers before the airing of the episode. I wish I could be so self-restrained.

I enjoy Ian Wylie's blogs too. But I am just concerned about his last remark

Series 10 Spoiler: show

The ending was, for me, about as perfect as I could have hoped for.
Especially the closing minutes of this ten series Spooks’ journey.
As I’ve said in this blog many times, we all see things in different ways – so I know not everyone will agree.

Who is "not everyone"? I hope it is not the HR shippers. Are there other fans than H/R fans? He might think about the younger Spooks generation, Dimitri, Erin, Calum, even Sasha, who might get hurt or worse?

[JHyde]

Was Harry manipulating Ruth in episode 5? I think so. Was he also being genuine when he reassured her. I also think so.

[beatrice4ruth]

Harry did seem sincere when he was speaking to Ruth to reassure her. But if he goes on manipulating Ruth, is he really the right man for her? Doesn't she deserve better than to expect to be manipulated by Harry in her private life? I suppose that Harry can't help himself after so many years of lying and manipulating people.

In fact, I am happy that Spooks is ending now. I am getting really annoyed at the bleakness and despair surrounding Harry; at his solitude and mostly, as PF remarked,

Series 10 Spoiler: show

at the fact that [i]Harry and Ruth are emotional cripples. His suggestion is somewhat contradicted by the actions of Harry and Ruth in the last two episodes. Finally, they are speaking honestly about their feelings towards each other and in the next trailer Ruth even grabs Harry's hand and tells him "leave the service with me, while we still know who we are". I hope that Harry accepts her suggestion, but somehow I doubt it. If Harry refuses her offer unless it is to save the country a last time, I have to believe that Harry is more crippled emotionally than Ruth. She not only reaches out to him but also in recent years had a semblance of a family life with George and Nico. I hate to say it but it might be too late for them.

I can only hope that Ian Wyle is right and that we will be satisfied with the ending. At least Harry and Ruth are smiling at each other, an improvement over series 9. However, we need some of the jokes and the lightness of the earlier years back. Where did they go?

[Agent Acme]

(18-10-2011 05:42 PM)Naivety Wrote:  

(18-10-2011 12:48 PM)beatrice4ruth Wrote:  Frankly, I do not know why I am still speculating after reading the TV guide comments of PF. It is so disheartening and so contrary to what you are so beautifully writing about them: In a sense, what we saw in this episode, is the two of them coming to grips with each other's faults and mistakes, and realising it doesn't change how they feel about each other.

I just don't get it. I can only hope that PF was teasing us.

After reading the Radio Times review, I am even ready to believe that

Series 10 Spoiler: show

Ruth is a traitor and she is going to kill Harry. It's so pathetic or should I say I am so pathetic for getting so involved in Spooks. Let's hope that I can laugh at the jokes.

1. Ruth is not a traitor. She is just as patriotic as Harry is, and will not betray Britain.

2. I think Peter is being a naughty boy and keeping us speculating. It's the writers (and Kudos) who decide whether Harry and Ruth get together.

Spoiler: show

I am trying to keep the faith and follow Ian Wylie's blog. He is a genuine Spooks fan, and an H/R shipper. If he is happy with episode 6 then I think I will be.

I really hate to disagree with you there. I'd love for things to work out for Harry and Ruth, but Ian Wylie's blog doesn't really fill me with much confidence, a great ending, yes but for H/R shippers?

Ian's a bloke ( sorry boys, generalising a bit here, no offence!) Men tend to have a more pragmatic approach to romance, and fictional romance, well, I don't think you'll catch many men reading Barbara Cartland or Mills and Boon, and 'chick flics', you have to drag em' to the cinema....or so they would have you believe!

I still live in hope, and everything is crossed, but......

[beatrice4ruth]

I am worried about H/R too. I am even more concerned now that I have read the Box Cult preview for episode 6. The paragraph below really troubles me:

Series 10 Spoiler: show

The fate of nations hangs on what happens between a few people in one room; on whether they can trust one another through the decades-old deceptions, and the resulting tension bleeds through the screen. This is an episode which, for many characters, is all about who you can trust, and whether that trust and devotion have been fatally misplaced all along.

Poor Ruth, if Harry is not who she thinks he is. Poor Harry, if Elena has betrayed him the whole time (no surprise there; I have always thought she might be guilty). Poor Harry, if Ruth...no way; she could not betray him.

Are the reviewers mostly men? It seems so. You are right, you cannot trust men with a positive spin on fictional romance .

[Naivety]

(19-10-2011 11:25 AM)Agent Acme Wrote:  I really hate to disagree with you there. I'd love for things to work out for Harry and Ruth, but Ian Wylie's blog doesn't really fill me with much confidence, a great ending, yes but for H/R shippers?

Ian's a bloke ( sorry boys, generalising a bit here, no offence!) Men tend to have a more pragmatic approach to romance, and fictional romance, well, I don't think you'll catch many men reading Barbara Cartland or Mills and Boon, and 'chick flics', you have to drag em' to the cinema....or so they would have you believe!

I still live in hope, and everything is crossed, but......

Mills and Boon?, Barbara Cartland? This is Spooks! I love the Harry and Ruth story for what it is, not because it's some sickly, treacly gooey-eyed romance. Remember the key words of 5.5: 'leave it as something wonderful... something wonderful but never said'. Harry and Ruth is subtly written, and it probably will be until the very end. I think that is what Ian Wylie is hinting at.

Spoiler: show

There is also a line in his blog: 'and we await a kiss'. If we get one of those I will be very happy indeed!

.

[Agent Acme]

Sorry, I think you may have misinterpreted what I was trying to get at. I wasn't referring to Spooks when I mentioned Mills and Boon, I was suggesting that Ian Wylie, as a man, may look at fictional romance differently!

The Mills and boon reference was there merely as attempt at humour and to highlight the possible differences in gender reading and/or watching habits and how the different sexes may translate that romance.

As hopeless a romantic as I am, I could never possibly , even in my wildest dreams, ever attempt to describe the relationship between Harry and Ruth as that...!!!

[beatrice4ruth]

The Cult Box preview for episode 6 reveals how much Elena might have

Spoiler: show

ruined Harry's life.

The fate of nations hangs on what happens between a few people in one room; on whether they can trust one another through the decades-old deceptions, and the resulting tension bleeds through the screen. This is an episode which, for many characters, is all about who you can trust, and whether that trust and devotion have been fatally misplaced all along.

If Harry has misplaced his trust and devotion in Elena as perhaps suggested above, Elena might have been guilty of indirectly breaking up his marriage to Jane and his estrangement from his English children. I can imagine that the guilt that Harry must have felt over the years about his supposed abandonment of Elena and Sasha would have had a tremendous impact on his family life in England. It would also have hampered his relationship with Ruth (A marriage proposal at a funeral is guaranteed to get a refusal from a girl. What was the man thinking!).

I know I am speculating and I might be totally wrong.

Spoiler: show

Perhaps the misplaced trust and devotion refer to Elena and not to Harry. I can't help being prejudiced against Elena and it has nothing to do with Ruth. Elena's statements just do not ring true.

[loladom]

Why are you so sure this is all about Harry (and Ruth)?

The article states "for many characters, is all about who you can trust, and whether that trust and devotion have been fatally misplaced all along. " That could mean many things.

1. Ilya's devotion to Elena, we know he knows of the affair, but perhaps not of Sacha. We know he took her back after the KGB interrogation and stuck his neck out. Say he discovers she's the plot driver?
2. Elena's belief that Ilya is a good man. She seemed genuinely fond of him and devastated by the thought he might be the one who tried to kill her. Say she finds out he's the plot driver?
3. Sacha and Elena. He seems devoted to his mother, but something's got Harry steamed up enough to

Series 10.6 Spoiler: show

point a gun at him

so perhaps he's about to sell his mother up the river.
4. Elena incorrectly assuming Harry has loved her all these years. He said to Ruth he felt guilt not love.
5. Harry discovering Elena has lied about Sacha's paternity and is behind the plot. Perhaps she was even a set up back in Berlin?

A number of meanings right there. We shouldn't read so much into these reviews and shouldn't always jump on the band wagon that Harry is going to turn on Ruth or vice versa.

As to Elena ruining Harry's marriage, we're getting into Agony Aunt territory here, but we know Elena wasn't his only stray, and judging from the comments Harry made about ELena, he seems more affected by his self criticism over his cowardice and sense of shame about 'the boy' than actual heartbreak/love for her.