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femaleBertieWooster · 25-10-2010, 08:49 PM

I was hoping to finish reading this thread before I had to leave for the day. It's interesting that the member who opened the thread put out the theory that I got while watching the first few episodes. I stay away from RA interviews because I want to avoid spoilers. I think that I got the idea shows that there is real support for this theory.

I don't think Nicholas Blake is the ultimate betrayer. They would not keep up the hints and finger pointing if so.

Spoiler: show

Vaughn has to be at least at the level of Harry or he would not have known of the existence of an Albany file. I subscribe to the theory that Lucas is being used but by whom or for what is anyone's guess. In addition

Spoiler: show

All this is spec obviously but I have a hard time figuring out when to use spoiler tags so use them to be safe.

theeyeshaveit · (This post was last modified: 26-10-2010 03:56 AM by theeyeshaveit.)

I still have no idea where they are taking this, but there is one thing which keep popping up for me.

The two personality thing.

Even this week when his urgent John activities were so urgent and happening simultaneously with a Lucas operational crisis, he was still busting a gut to fulfill his Lucas duties, and thinking clearly while doing them, as his question about Opera to Harry showed, yet as John he is so brain addled as to believe Malcolm would not have done some sort of check, even if just trying to make a friendly 'hello, catch up call' to Harry just to check if what Lucas/John told him about Harry was true. When he doing John things, he is another person entirely with a brain that does not seem to operate logically.

As I have stated elsewhere I can't believe Lucas would have chosen the John path when confronted with anything I can conceive of, not for himself, not for love of Maya, nor even for her in danger. i think he would have recognised that by far the better option for enabling he and Maya to have been together would have been to face the music, and for Maya to be protected by MI5 if her life was in danger.

So why did he behave as John when Vaughn started threatening him?

The only thing that seems possible to me is that something (like the Maya photo) triggered John to come out, most of the explanations for which are pretty fanciful, like mind programming in the Russian prison. Even if he had always been John and had taken the identity of Lucas at some point before joining MI5, I would expect the way Lucas and John function to be more mixed up at the moment and them not to be looking and behaving like two totally different people.

If the Albany story line does turn out to be all about Lucas and not some covert operational thing, then whether this loss of mind is going to be credible is going to depend on what he has to hide, and I cannot at the moment conceive of anything in the past that would achieve that for me.

For me the only thing I can think of grave enough to explain the Lucas we have seen in the last two series taking this path, is for him to have been working as a traitor since he came back from Russia and I will hate the writers for making him that. I can see how they can use past series to make that scenario work though, Lucas' and Malcolms strange meeting when he firsts comes back, the trip to Russia was not the heroic act I thought it because he was actually working for the Russians, and there are probably other things they could turn on their head to suit the traitor purpose. It remains an option I find very depressing, even if it will give the series something not done before for a section leader exit.

Quill · 26-10-2010, 10:03 PM

In 1995, UK was deeply invested in Nigeria after oil interests. Local activists against a UK/Dutch oil deal there were arrested and executed. There were allegations that they were falsely accused and the local government was just trying to smooth the way for the oil deal. See more here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates...539561.stm

Let's suppose that Maya was an a doctor involved with some NGO working there at the time. And that John/Lucas was another idealistic Brit. Being young and naive, he may got involved in the whole political mess, maybe against British interests and the results were catastrophic. People died and he felt responsible. The only way to not bring Maya down with him would be to disappear and end this chapter of his life. And then, the perfect way to expiate for what he perceives as his crime presents itself as a recruitment into MI-5. This is why he's so dogged loyal to the service until now.

China has invested a lot in Africa recently, looking for energy sources for its exploding growing economy. If the Chinese have done their research better than MI-5, they might be after Lucas because of his past activities. He might still have valuable contacts in Africa and the Chinese may think that he would be easy to turn.

I know, I know, there are holes in this theory the size of the Chunnel: the MI-5 vetting process must be really terrible, Maya must be more than fabulous, Harry is an idiot, Lucas is a fantastic idiot... Kudos writers are really driving me bonkers! Vueltasss

theeyeshaveit · (This post was last modified: 27-10-2010 12:39 AM by theeyeshaveit.)

There is a HUGE spoiler on RAnet, in a tv magazine posted there, and as this is a spoiler thread I assume I can discuss it but I will put my comment in spoilers anyway. If you read it, it might make it difficult to discuss on non spoiler threads because it may be difficult for it not to colour your posting.

Series 9 episode 7 Spoiler: show

theeyeshaveit · (This post was last modified: 27-10-2010 04:20 AM by theeyeshaveit.)

This is the strangler.

MTA - removed screen cap with apologies. I thought it was ok since it was in the episode 7 trailer and people were discussing it here.

femaleBertieWooster · (This post was last modified: 27-10-2010 07:58 PM by femaleBertieWooster.)

(26-10-2010 10:03 PM)Quill Wrote: In 1995, UK was deeply invested in Nigeria after oil interests. Local activists against a UK/Dutch oil deal there were arrested and executed. There were allegations that they were falsely accused and the local government was just trying to smooth the way for the oil deal. See more here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates...539561.stm

Let's suppose that Maya was an a doctor involved with some NGO working there at the time. And that John/Lucas was another idealistic Brit. Being young and naive, he may got involved in the whole political mess, maybe against British interests and the results were catastrophic. People died and he felt responsible. The only way to not bring Maya down with him would be to disappear and end this chapter of his life. And then, the perfect way to expiate for what he perceives as his crime presents itself as a recruitment into MI-5. This is why he's so dogged loyal to the service until now.

China has invested a lot in Africa recently, looking for energy sources for its exploding growing economy. If the Chinese have done their research better than MI-5, they might be after Lucas because of his past activities. He might still have valuable contacts in Africa and the Chinese may think that he would be easy to turn.

I know, I know, there are holes in this theory the size of the Chunnel: the MI-5 vetting process must be really terrible, Maya must be more than fabulous, Harry is an idiot, Lucas is a fantastic idiot... Kudos writers are really driving me bonkers!

Thanks. I was asking about this on the episode 6 thread.
Edit to add, this is the kind of event that would merit the story we're now getting on Spooks. Your theory is quite good. It would have been some kind of mission gone bad, ending in the nightmare in your link.
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Not going to click on the spoiler link below your post. Maybe the photo below should be a link in spoiler tags also. Did not want to hear or see that.

-----------------------------Edit for another thought

I didn't know if I should ask this in the episode 6 thread even though we've talked all around it a good deal. Going to spoiler tag it anyway.

Spoiler: show

Quill · 27-10-2010, 10:13 PM

I don't think so. It makes more sense that the Lucas North we know now is the same that was recruited by MI-5 and spent time in prison. He's probably a fictional identity created by John 15 years ago when he started running.

I can't see Harry welcoming anyone but the Lucas he knew back.

Thanks for your nice comment about my crazy theory. I'm sure that after we see the final episode we will all be shaking our heads and murmuring "But of course... Why didn't I see that coming?"

BravoNine · 27-10-2010, 11:52 PM

(27-10-2010 10:13 PM)Quill Wrote: I don't think so. It makes more sense that the Lucas North we know now is the same that was recruited by MI-5 and spent time in prison. He's probably a fictional identity created by John 15 years ago when he started running.

I can't see Harry welcoming anyone but the Lucas he knew back.

Thanks for your nice comment about my crazy theory. I'm sure that after we see the final episode we will all be shaking our heads and murmuring "But of course... Why didn't I see that coming?"

Yeah, I can't see Harry leaving the real Lucas behind, especially considering he sounded so happy to bring Lucas home when he was talking to Adam at the beginning of Series 7. If this wasn't the real Lucas, I can't see Harry letting him have all this access and then risk him betraying the team.

I think so too that Lucas could be an identity that John assumed after he ran away to hide the truth about this terrible secret, and then maybe Harry picked him up afterwards.

But somehow I have a hard time that MI5 vetting didn't discover Lucas's big dark secret, surely he didn't hide it that well as a young man. It really makes me question MI5 security.

Well, I can only see a few ways for my reactions at the end of the series. It would either be "Of course, it now all makes sense and I am happy!" or "Nooooo Lucas is dead, but he still came through so I can take it" or "Noooooo Lucas is an evil traitor, I hate you writers!!!!!!"

Personally, I am hoping for a happy ending, I want to see my old school Spooks (Harry, Lucas, and Malcolm) team up together with their 90s style codes and take down Vaughn and the baddies!!!!!!

femaleBertieWooster · 28-10-2010, 01:58 AM

I was thinking,

Spoiler: show

squashyjoshy · 29-10-2010, 01:10 PM

I've been lurking for aaaages and this whole series is driving me crackers. Clearly Lucas is behaving in a totally deranged fashion but he's obviously not the traitor because, well, it's too obvious.

Isn't it?

Well, I was trawling the old youtubes for the spooks behind the scenes stuff and came across a BBC Breakfast skit that aired in September. And in it...

Series 9 Spoiler: show

It's all making my head hurt. Would someone please make it all go away. Or at least show 7&8 as a double bill on Monday so I can get on with my life instead of checking in here obsessively every two hours.
Huh

As you were...