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BravoNine · 01-11-2010, 02:32 AM

(01-11-2010 02:29 AM)Annie Wrote: But if Vaughn is a good guy who works with Harry, just to test Lucas, then why is he dragging Maya into it by pretending to be "Michael" and probably having sex with her? That's a bit low for an ally of Harry's methinks.

And also from everything we have been given so far, there is no indication that through 8 years of torture and imprisonment that Lucas ever betrayed his country. If 8 years of suffering doesn't prove his loyalty to Harry, then I don't know what could.

One would think what Lucas went through in Russia was more than enough of a test, that Harry wouldn't stoop this low or extreme to test him again, especially not in this way.

Annie · 01-11-2010, 02:36 AM

Exactly! I'm firmly of the opinion that Vaughn is a nasty piece of work, who'll hopefully have his derriere handed to him in the final episode.

Mrs. Jones · 01-11-2010, 02:43 AM

Perhaps Maya is also an agent. We really don't know anything about her or Vaughn for certain.
The reason I thought of Vaughn working with Harry is b/c when he was revealed as Maya's Michael he seemed so horrible. But then as a twist what if he were on the side of good and it was Lucas who was evil? Also what evil thing have we seen Vaughn do? Bother Lucas to get a classified file? Meet him in various places to threaten/bother him? The evil thing we have seen Lucas do is allow the hacker to die, and almost pull a gun on Malcom, and possibly go back to hurt Malcom for giving him a false file.

Also I seem to think that Connie telling Lucas that it was she rather than Harry who harmed Lucas--maybe she knew that Lucas had bad intentions and as she was nearing her end and feeling large spirited was attempting to persuade Lucas to not end like her and to be loyal to MI-5.
Maybe this last piece is a push but still tomorrow night should be very exciting!

BravoNine · 01-11-2010, 02:53 AM

(01-11-2010 02:43 AM)Mrs. Jones Wrote: Perhaps Maya is also an agent. We really don't know anything about her or Vaughn for certain.
The reason I thought of Vaughn working with Harry is b/c when he was revealed as Maya's Michael he seemed so horrible. But then as a twist what if he were on the side of good and it was Lucas who was evil? Also what evil thing have we seen Vaughn do? Bother Lucas to get a classified file? Meet him in various places to threaten/bother him? The evil thing we have seen Lucas do is allow the hacker to die, and almost pull a gun on Malcom, and possibly go back to hurt Malcom for giving him a false file.

Also I seem to think that Connie telling Lucas that it was she rather than Harry who harmed Lucas--maybe she knew that Lucas had bad intentions and as she was nearing her end and feeling large spirited was attempting to persuade Lucas to not end like her and to be loyal to MI-5.
Maybe this last piece is a push but still tomorrow night should be very exciting!

If Lucas was planning an evil revenge on Harry, I really doubt he would have risked his life more than once to save Harry's life when both times he could have easily compromised his mission and just let Harry die and no one would be any wiser.

Vaughn is the whole reason that this thing with Lucas started, if this was Harry's way to pushing Lucas to the extreme to somehow phase him out as a traitor or test his loyalties, then it's stupid. Vaughn threatened Maya's life, threatened to expose Lucas's secret (which has nothing to do with loyalties or betrayals), he blackmailed Lucas into keep on forcing him to find the Albany file. None of the deaths or frame-ups would have happened if Vaughn hadn't shown up out of the blue to push everything out of whack.

So while you can say Vaughn never did anything evil and it's Lucas who is all evil and killing people, Vaughn is every bit as guilty as Lucas.

And I don't care what suspicions there may be, but if Harry is trying to test Lucas's loyalty using Vaughn and Maya, then Harry is more of a bastard than I ever imagined him to be. If 8 years of torture and the fact that he saved Harry's life TWICE doesn't mean anything to Harry then I have to question Harry's judgment and sanity.

theeyeshaveit · 01-11-2010, 01:12 PM

The only reason I could conceive why Harry would have set this up as a test for Lucas is if Harry was leaving and planning to recommend Lucas to take over his job, but even this is too unbelievable, especially in view of the Hobbit announcement.

BravoNine · 01-11-2010, 01:19 PM

(01-11-2010 01:12 PM)theeyeshaveit Wrote: The only reason I could conceive why Harry would have set this up as a test for Lucas is if Harry was leaving and planning to recommend Lucas to take over his job, but even this is too unbelievable, especially in view of the Hobbit announcement.

I don't believe that it is unbelievable that Harry wants to hand the job to Lucas, but what I believe is unbelievable is that Harry would institute this kind of a test, it just seems way too drastic, and at this point, way too out of control. Would Harry risk the chance that innocent people will get caught up in this "test" when he pushes Lucas to the brink?

As for the Hobbit announcement, it certainly doesn't mean a total end to Richard returning to Spooks. Martin Freeman who is casted as the main character is still filming his other projects and still coming to do BBC's Sherlock for their second series that is to air next fall. The Hobbit filming will not be as long and hard as the LOTR trilogy was now that a lot of the production sets and ideas are now easier to make and use.

Who Needs Bond · 01-11-2010, 01:53 PM

(01-11-2010 01:19 PM)BravoNine Wrote: As for the Hobbit announcement, it certainly doesn't mean a total end to Richard returning to Spooks. Martin Freeman who is casted as the main character is still filming his other projects and still coming to do BBC's Sherlock for their second series that is to air next fall. The Hobbit filming will not be as long and hard as the LOTR trilogy was now that a lot of the production sets and ideas are now easier to make and use.

Totally agree. Even though RA is playing one of the main characters (really THE main character after Bilbo) I could see that it would be more than possible to organise the filming schedule so that he could carry on it Spooks and film The Hobbit as well. Plenty of actors juggle more than one project, and even though these are opposite sides of the world, it is still more than possible.

squashyjoshy · 01-11-2010, 02:10 PM

Series 9 Spoiler: show

Why do I feel very, very happy for him and yet I suspect this means something very, very bad.

It's my birthday on the 14th of this month. With tonight's episode and the finale in 7 days and 20-few hours, I may not make it.

conniesachs · 01-11-2010, 04:07 PM

First post, so a bit nervous. Have had so many ideas about John/Lucas, but had no one to discuss them with. Pleased that others have been thinking along some of the same lines, maybe they weren't all so far-fetched after all. Will try to keep it as brief as poss.

Split/multiple personlities is the only explanation I have for the contradictions in John/Lucas' behaviour; desperate and treacherous one minute, efficient and caring team leader the next.

I think when Harry realises what is happening with Lucas he will try to help. He knows he is not a traitor but he did return from Russia as "damaged goods" and he'd been warned by the psychiatrists that something like this could happen given the right trigger.

John got involved in radical/anarchistic politics in university (Lucas' fascination with William Blake) and teamed up with Vaughn probably some time shortly afterwards. 15 years ago they did something big/bad and John faked his own death and took on the identity of Lucas North, becoming so immersed in him that John faded away.

Lucas North was the role Vaughn had intended to use himself , which is why he asked what it had been like being LN, because it should have been him playing him. LN was either;
a) MI5 agent investigating John and Vaughn, who the killed, which is why John can't come clean about his past. However, for this to work John and LN would need to look very similar or MI5 would have to be persuaded that LN had needed plastic surgery.
or b) totally fictional squeaky clean identity designed to be able to get through MI5 clearance.

Vaughn tried to join MI5, and like Beth rejected by Harry. But whereas Beth went into legitimate private security Vaughn sought revenge for his rejection and had planned to use the LN identity to get into MI5 and sabotage from within.
And/or; May have been in prison for the last 15 years and looking for revenge on John for leaving him carrying the can by blackmailing him into stealing secret files and being exposed as a traitor. Not knowing that by re-introducing Maya he would trigger the split/multiple personalities to come out.

Albany - A file in name only (randomly allocated) marked top secret as bait to see who will come looking for it. Must have been set up after Connie James or she would have found it and been revealed as a traitor earlier.

Haven't read any spoilers for eps 7 & 8, so much of this is probably now obviously wrong, but if I take in any more new information I think my head might explode! So I'll stick with this and see if any of it turns out to be right. Would appreciate your comments.

tareqmow · 01-11-2010, 06:46 PM

Albany - A file in name only (randomly allocated) marked top secret as bait to see who will come looking for it. Must have been set up after Connie James or she would have found it and been revealed as a traitor earlier.

I really agree with the comment above. It would explain why whoever Vaughn's working for (?!) deemed it a fake. Maybe they're interested in it only because they cannot relate it to any MI5 operations, and think that is because it was done on the sly, nobody knows about it apart from Harry and Malcolm (hazarding a guess!) and they think it could be used as blackmail to their own advantage?
Really am getting a little bit fantastical now, can't wait for tomorrow!